To Make The Impossible Possible: Enjoying Gundam SEED Destiny

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At the risk of hyperbole, I make things clear before anything else: Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny is shit on a stick. It is the worst anime ever made in the pretense of entertainment. If it is possible that there are worse shows that do exist, then there is no atom of desire in my being to experience them. If Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam is a sin against Mobile Suit Z Gundam or a sin against the Universal Century sub-franchise, then Gundam SEED Destiny is a sin against all anime.

Having said that, I enjoyed myself watching this rubbish. My emotional investment in it is rather scanty. Mobile Suit Gundam SEED is garbage in my eyes to begin with , so even the exceptional shittiness of GSD isn’t something that hurt me beyond its blows against my personal aesthetics, good sense, and value of time. I mention this because it is forever  linked with Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam, the other sequel in the franchise that is renowned for its awfulness, and is to day the only show that I ever truly hate (for reasons that I’ve already stated elsewhere).

So how did I accomplish this feat? I truly did enjoy Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny.

thanks @crazydave

At the most superficial level, despite the fugly character designs, I happen to find several of the female characters quite fetching. Lunamaria Hawke and her silky voice (Sakamoto Maaya) and her pink skirt is very nice… until she actually tries to be useful in a fight (biggest missed gimme in Gundam FOR SERIOUS); Cagali can be quite the ingénue in the few moments she’s not being annoying (usually when she’s in the bath… it’s hard to stay annoying while naked in the bath, even for Cagali); and for all the flak I give her, I ♥ Murrue Ramius.

When I’m not thinking too hard, I get caught up with the shipping shenanigans. Oh ♥Athrun♥, you’re so pimp. Everyone not named Shinn is just so hot for you. Don’t worry, nobody likes Shinn. It took you dumping Lunamaria for her kid sister for her to finally go to Shinn, and Rey doesn’t count because he was raised in a vat. Shinn is into that.

Also, just like during the siege of Alaska in SEED, even a hater like me enjoyed the siege of Orb. I could suspend my intense dislike for this kind of mecha battle style to enjoy the intense action in that arc.

Lastly, terrible shows are best enjoyed with friends! But while I was sadistic enough to make people watch SEED with me, my conscience could no longer countenance inviting 3D friends to this 2D pursuit; 2D friends however!

Allow me to present my illustrious panel:

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Now that I’ve introduced my BROs, let us get into the discussion of the show. We don’t really want to repeat any of the many, many, many, many, many complaints about GSD. While this is quite impossible, I’ll choose to frame the issues my own way.

#1. Who the Hell are the Protagonists of this Show?

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We know this is Shinn’s show because the title is Gundam SEED Destiny, and Shinn pilots the titular Gundam. That’s how it works. The problem is that he becomes this third wheel between ♥Athrun♥ and Kira☆. And perhaps the bigger problem is that he is horribly unlikeable. Shinn combines the worst qualities of Kamille Bidan (Z Gundam: always angry and shouting, but without the bitterness despite having worse things happen to him on-screen to establish his distrust and foul mood) and Judau Ashta (sorry bro) who is forced on us to become sympathetic for having a morality pet in the form of a kid sister.

Shinn, as opposed to both references, fawns over authority! He blindly follows Gilbert Durandal, and Durandal’s puppet Rey Za Burrel. My Gundam lead pilot can’t be this subservient to authority while remaining an asshole to everyone else! Shinn Asuka can’t carry the story, which resulted in the overindulgence of ♥Athrun♥ and Kira☆, which compromised Shinn further – reducing his asshattery to raging emo crying in the latter part of the show.

#2. Nobody Really “Grows” Except Athrun.

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A huge cast is a problem enough, if you want the viewers to care enough for the characters in a saga with names. Well, here are rules of thumb:

  • If a character at any point becomes critical to the success of a main protagonist, then we should care about that character.
  • If a character at any point seriously threatens the aspirations of a main protagonist, through direct or indirect conflict, then we should care about that character.
  • If a character at any point becomes involved directly or indirectly in a romance or a romance-related conflict with one of the main characters, or even with another side character, then we should care.
  • If a character at any point starts a rivalry with a main protagonist, then we should care about that character.

Gundam SEED Destiny had a host of characters that break these rules. Neo Roanoake was presented as an important villain, but for all intents and purposes the villain disappears as an excuse to bring back the popular Mu La Flaga from the dead. Mu La Flaga’s existence is given meaning by his sacrifice to save the Archangel in the finale of the previous show. Bringing him back this way is crude, clumsy, and cheap… and this is now a tradition in Gundam shows (Mobile Suit Gundam 00 second season). If side characters being worthless is bothersome enough, doing this for villains is even worse!

#3. Villainous Deeds Do Not Make for Memorable Villains

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To further establish Durandal’s evil, Meer had to be portrayed as disposable. However, she was given something like two whole episodes near the very climax of everything. She didn’t even have a story prior to this, and suddenly her story derails the main plot so close to the end.

Worse, it involved one of the lamest assassination operations in all anime. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex preceded this show. The thought cripples the mind. How bad was it? Pilots were hitting rifle-carrying snipers, using pistols at distance, while remaining unscathed themselves. That Kira☆, he is godly.

#4. Someone forgot this is a robot show.

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The funny thing is how the AU Gundam shows starting from Mobile Report Wing Gundam have been the status quo for “real robot” shows for over a decade. SEED and GSD are very much follow the tradition and build further distance from the more grounded and grittier UC Gundam shows in terms of robot action. Pilots and their suits become de facto super heroes on the battlefield wielding otherworldly powers to vanquish armies of opponents. They are never challenged unless faced with another Gundam or a form of monstrous mobile armor (in GSD, this is just another but larger Gundam).

I’m not making UC Gundam to be faultless in this comparison, but they do have sterling examples of what I hold to be top-tier real robot action: Mobile Suit Gundam Char’s Counterattack, 08th MS Team, 0080 War in the Pocket, 0083 Stardust Memory, and Unicorn. It’s no coincidence that these shows are films or OVAs – which almost always appeal to a more mature audience. But I contend that Gundam 00 made some headway into this for whatever it’s worth: The best bits in 00 involved the different Earth government factions out-foxing and out-piloting Celestial Being with their overpowered Gundams. It was truly good, if only for a short while.

GundamGallery Gundam SEED 2997

Gundam SEED Destiny is the most underrated source of enjoyment in anime of all time.

Yeah you read that right. For obvious reasons (a good number of them mentioned by my panel of haters), people hate GSD. I’m saying right here that their hate is cheap. I’m talking about cheaper than being engaged to ♥Athrun Zala♥ kind of cheap. If you’re a long-time fan of the Gundam franchise (and I’m talking about much longer fan than I am – I’ve only been a fan for 2 years), like way back in the 90s fan or earlier and is a fan of the franchise as a whole and not just UC, or AU, and you feel like GSD’s awfulness spelt the doom of your beloved franchise… I might have sympathy for your hatred. I can’t imagine being there under those circumstances while this show was airing. The pain must have been exquisite.

Otherwise, the hate is overblown, and has more to do with self-proclaimed allegiance to standards of merit in anime or some other set of ideals than anything else. A show this bad is so easy to drop. I’ll say it again:

A SHOW THIS AWFUL IS SO EASY TO DROP.

If you persisted in watching it, then you really must have something immense invested in its success. Otherwise, you stuck there to hate. And if you did, it says more about you than it does about the show.

Going further, I suspect a lot of you started doing what I intended to do here all along: you started getting off on hating the show. You just couldn’t wait posting on your internet boards and commenting on blog posts about how just awful this show is. You’ve tried making an art form out of making jokes at how bad the show is. You baited people by claiming this show isn’t as bad, or funnier, mentioning other people’s favorite shows are just as bad or even worse than this one. Sure you’re just getting some value out of the sunk cost of your time, but c’mon let’s be real. You actually love to hate it. Gundam SEED Destiny gives you the quickest and most massive hate boners.

Obviously, I can’t possibly describe everyone’s experience of the show, so if what I just said doesn’t completely describe you, that’s okay. I don’t mean to insult anyone’s intelligence here. You’ve already done enough by finishing Gundam SEED Destiny.

Before you get all worked up, I’m not condemning you for doing so. It’s exactly what I’m doing right now: entertaining myself to absurd levels, performing alchemy by turning rubbish to revelations. It’s just an invitation to authenticity. Haters gonna hate. Say it with me:

I love to hate Gundam SEED Destiny more than I actually hate it.

And this just proves how there really is so much joy to be had as a fan of Gundam. No other franchise can match this wealth.

The Ultimate Value of Gundam SEED Destiny

It exists to remind us that an epic level of awful exists, that something so consistently bad and presented in a progressively horrendous fashion over the course of 100+ episodes (to account for side stories and films). Yes, I count Mobile Suit Gundam SEED. It reminds us how no franchise, however successful or important, is ever immune to utter travesty. And more importantly, it reminds us how things of such atrocity can become overwhelmingly popular and successful despite itself. People did enjoy Gundam SEED Destiny without irony or subversion.

It also tells us, that we can overcome these things, as I did, as many others before me. I have found a way to enjoy GSD, by spinning the coin of love and hate and smashing it with the hammer of fun at random intervals.

Now you tell me, what were your favorite things, moments, aspects of Gundam SEED Destiny that you love, or love to hate most?

Haven’t seen any Gundam at all? Don’t know where to start? Find your Gateway Gundam!

 

About ghostlightning

I entered the anime blogging sphere as a lurker around Spring 2008. We Remember Love is my first anime blog. Click here if this is your first time to visit WRL.
This entry was posted in analysis, fanboy, for the lulz, Gundam and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

122 Responses to To Make The Impossible Possible: Enjoying Gundam SEED Destiny

  1. Kiri says:

    I hated Destiny because I liked SEED, but no one else liked SEED, so I might be alone in this sort of hatred. :3 Though I’m pretty sure by the end of it, I was disconnected enough to really not care anymore. I don’t remember. REPRESSED IT.

    • Kiri says:

      That said, I find it amusing and entertaining that you managed to enjoy it to the extent of loving to hate it. I think I love to hate anything I care enough to verbally abuse. Like Harry Potter movies! :D If I really, really hated it, I usually won’t bother writing about it. Unless it was a sin enough against humanity that I felt the need to warn people about it (Dragonball Evolution).

    • That’s the key! Transform your hate to glee, and let others in on the mirth! I’m not as retarded an HP fag as you so the movies never truly bothered me as much but I really do get why you are the way you are!

      REPRESSING hate compresses it into something like a bomb, that has a kind of fuse that gets lit when you see something similar though during different circumstances (hint: Gundam 00).

  2. Evirus says:

    Just pointing out that some argue Kira didn’t hit crap when flunkies from Soldats tries killing Lacus again. Apparently frame-by-frame anime forensics and analysis of shot sequences suggest it was Meyrin who shot the grenade in mid-air. Personally, I think it’s debatable except that Anime Jesus doesn’t shoot guns. He should have hucked the pistol itself instead of using bullets. Hey, it worked last time.

    • I am in awe of your catching such fine details from this show. To think one can catch these things peeking through barely open eyelids from a face scrunched and contorted so thoroughly under the most violent of facepalms! PROSIT

  3. schneider says:

    I remember a poster in /m/ saying that every /m/an should watch all of Gundam SEED Destiny to know how bad it is, because “real /m/en finish the shows they watch.” The logic is kinda jacked in that one, but the thing with GSD is that it brings out what’s good with the Gundam franchise just by being irredeemably terrible. It also acts like a Gundam litmus test–if you think GSD is good, then you need to watch more Gundam shows (I had experienced this firsthand).

    At any rate, I know some people who hate on shows as if they were the shittiest shit ever shat out of a butt after watching (and dropping) the first few episodes. But we /m/en don’t do that! If you want to be a hater, then you must know your enemy. And that is by finishing GSD, because you have more material to hate with all 50 episodes, right?

    On a related note, that’s why I enjoy Kenkoudaa, they’re total SEED fanboys, but do so with a great sense of humor.

    ANYWAYS

    I was mostly disappointed with the tech progression in GSD. I really liked the ZAFT mechs from SEED. GSD gave us the GuAIZ R, which was up for retirement with the introduction of the new ZAKU series. There’s no comparison between the two in terms of aesthetics. It’s ZAFT copying Alliance design principles again, with the modular backpacks. They supposedly invented mobile suits first, but now they’re copying everything from the Alliance (beam weapons, Phase Shift armor, Gundam aesthetic). OTOH, the Alliance is just making uglier and uglier mechs.

    What’s pleasantly surprising is that the Master Grade kits of GSD Gundams are actually pretty good. Whatever problems we had with the blockiness and proportions were addressed by. The Impulse, Destiny and Infinite Justice look sleeker, though there is no changing the tackiness of Strike Freedom’s gold joints.

    • Yes, such quick and exaggerated hate shows a very weak game. If you really want to hate, you need to do it skillfully, and you put in the time and you put in the work.

      As to the tech progression, I could hardly make sense of it. You get secret tech in the form of I-fields on the Akatsuki, you get secret Gundams in the care of individuals. Otherwise just lots and lots of mass produced crap that’s hard to distinguish by faction.

      It really sucks how Astrays look too much like Gundams and not like the distinct GMs of the UC. Everything in SEED looks too much like Gundams; making all the suits look cheap.

      That said, the gold on the Strike Freedom is win. STFU hater.

    • Marigold Ran says:

      Schneider says: “At any rate, I know some people who hate on shows as if they were the shittiest shit ever shat out of a butt after watching (and dropping) the first few episodes. But we /m/en don’t do that! If you want to be a hater, then you must know your enemy. And that is by finishing GSD, because you have more material to hate with all 50 episodes, right?”

      No. True hate is apathy and emptiness. Hate is void. Kefka understood it the best.

  4. Crazydave says:

    mhm that 2nd picture looks awfully familiar…

  5. Otaku Surf says:

    At the time when I first saw Gundam Seed I thought it was pretty good, my favorite moments being the Freedom Gundam’s debut and the first series end battle to name a few. The only reason I watched Gundam Seed Destiny was that I enjoyed Gundam Seed. But after watching GSD with a very unlikable protagonist (Shinn) and with a somewhat boring storyline and characters I gave it up. Maybe it was a bit of repetitiveness…and the dead coming back to life ( I hated that they brought that person back after such a dramatic departure in the first series.) I’m just glad that they didn’t continue with that proposed movie sometime ago.

  6. Before responding to comments, I’ll share some of my favorite twitter exchanges while I was watching the show:

    http://twitter.com/#!/lelangir/status/15172529639391233

    http://twitter.com/#!/lelangir/status/15175520576602112

  7. Also,

  8. There’s more!

  9. This’ll be the last set for now:

    and,

  10. ToastCrust says:

    I can honestly claim to never have touched this show. I did play a few of the PS2 versus games though, with friends, cause they’re totally into SEED Destiny.

    The greatest tragedy of my high school life was finding out there were actually all these people–girls!–who were into an anime that isn’t InuYasha. That they liked a Gundam show!

    Then I find out the show the school was going crazy for was SEED Destiny. *sigh*

    • Athrun is indeed very pimp.

      The SRW games always ALWAYS make the characters look good, they pretty much eliminate the fail, making the playing experience as rewarding as possible. You can’t not root for Shinn if the people fighting with him include the likes of Kaboto Koji and Guy Shishio.

      • fR says:

        Then again, games like SRW K basically got rid of the wangst and just let you sic Shinn on all of your problems.
        …I /may/ have been playing that game wrong, though.

  11. ToastCrust says:

    Oh, and I guess I can’t say I minded Shinn that much in Super Robot Taisen Z.

    But I suppose it’s pretty hard to be a bad person around an allstar cast like KABUTO KOUJI, the entire Zambot 3 crew, Kei (from Orguss) and Loran. Pretty funny when he actually talks to Camille.

  12. >>People did enjoy Gundam SEED Destiny without irony or subversion.

    Come on GL, you’re trying to make a point here, no need to make such an understatement. GUNDAM SEED DESTINY WAS THE HIGHEST-SELLING ANIME OF THE MOTHERFUCKING DECADE.

    Very nice post.

    • Thanks. I was too lazy to research so when in doubt, I understate.

      The trouble with this post is keeping Bloodstained Euphie from gunning everyone down. The Prime Minister Saburota sicced Mr. Bushido on her, but he took a bunch of slugs and had to be treated. It took Krauser to fool her in thinking he’s German or something to get her participate productively. We tried to get Judau to calm her down but he just kept shouting at us (prick), so Sheryl had to sing Aimo to calm everyone down (which blows since her version is shit).

  13. bluemist says:

    I loved Gundam Seed, it was my gateway mecha anime. Maybe I was a bit immune to the haters because aside from this not being a preferred genre in anime for me, I watched it some months after broadcast, after all the possible rant voices have died down. I never bother to read opinions from other people either – it’s an isolated watch.

    That said, I was extremely emotionally invested in the characters of this show. I never cared about the robot action at all. It’s a classic race vs. race war which is a topic I am quite emotional about, and having to see all sides of the equation finally settle down for a very conclusive and peaceful ending (in Gundam Seed) gave me prime entertainment.

    But then with the mere announcement of the Gundam Seed Destiny sequel, I faintly recall myself being a bit disappointed, which is an unusual feeling for me. One would usually like sequels because you want to see familiar faces and settings in anime all over again right? No, I thought, oh come on, the ending of Seed was great, everybody’s happy, leave these characters alone.

    So I tried to watch and ended up giving up around 1/3 through. I quote my blog (it was an April Fool’s post but my rant was real):
    “The story and the characters which I cared about… all seem to be crap in the sequel. It basically rendered all the hardships and resolutions of the first series totally useless, and gave another spin at another war plot… really really badly.

    “(I watched) Every episode, painstakingly hoping that it will get better.”

    “The complete waste of time, effort, and money (over electric bills). These Gundam Seed series took me from UP to DOWN, and I ended up loathing both series anyway. Dammit, DANG IT REALLY!&$&$%%”#!!”

    It was around college time, I had some peers ask me about anime and so everytime this Gundam Seed topic comes out, I had the usual line of “never watch Gundam Seed Destiny.” It was my most unrecommended show in all of anime. No one may have heeded my suggestion, I’m not sure.

    • SEED really is quite a hit for non-robot fans in general due to its emo bishies and the seemingly epic sweep of its conflict. Some people take to the robot action if they’re fond of shonen-style action shows, others like you don’t care.

      GSD is so bad however, that whatever strengths SEED displayed however meager, it pissed them all away. It took whatever fans of the show there are, and shat down their throats. That said, it remains the highest selling anime of the past decade. Imagine that! People like shit!

  14. So…. It’s finally done. I have to admit I’m proud of you. Sloshing, in I believe one year, through the muck that is ZZ and SEED Destiny. And I’m not hurt by your words about people actually loving to hate SEED Destiny more than they hate it. But let me tell you, watching that show week by week as it unfolded in Japan was like watching a natural disaster real time. I already had a healthy amount of disdain for … HIM (Jesus Yamato) long before the Destiny even started. I mostly disliked him from the first DVD of SEED. When I saw his punk ass on that beach in Destiny I said, “no, oh hell no. Don’t do it. Stay on that beach.” Seeing Meer was bad enough, but feeling that if Durandal tried anything he would bait Kira back into the story was a feeling that put dread into the pit of my stomach. The combination of Kira and Lacus is a cancer to the SEED franchise that cannot be nuked out of existence.

    Oh no! I’m going off again.

    Anyway, seeing Destiny fail was almost like seeing Gundam die before my eyes. It made me wonder if any Gundam of quality could ever be made again. Thank God for Gundam 00. You can say what you will about that show, but I’ll be forever grateful that it came along and restored my hope that a good Gundam could be made again.

    When you saw that battle where HE completely dismantled Athrun, because he went into SEED mode because Cagalli was CRYING (ugh); you witnessed the moment that show broke me. I limped on until about the battle of Orb, but I was dead inside by that point. I believe that was the moment where HE officially said he was taking the show back and they were just gonna do a rehash of the original SEED.

    Oh yeah, and sorry for bailing on you when we were watching those episodes. I couldn’t sit through a damn recap episode. Those are my kryptonite.

    • sadakups says:

      Oh god. I cried when Saviour died through Kira’s hands because Cagalli cried.

    • I never truly got into the thick of hating Kira and Lacus. Kira in seed was annoying because he kept crying… him pwning everyone was something I expected from the start so it didn’t bother me so much. Lacus… oh Lacus. I didn’t find her too annoying as well, but I did notice how ridiculous her character is.

      The first time we really get to meet her in SEED, she was this moeblob airhead who didn’t even get that she was not on a ZAFT ship at once. Kira returns her to Athrun and Lacus disappears for a good long while. When she returns, WHO THE FUCK IS THIS CHARACTER? It’s as if the moeblob never existed, and suddenly she’s Jessica Edwards, Frederica Greenhill, and Hildegard Mariendorf rolled into one AND she gives away super Gundams! Who would buy into this shit?!?!

      And holy shit, whenever Shinn beat the other two leads, he’d be in SEED mode and the other two wouldn’t! THAT’S RETARDED. Probably they don’t want SEED modes fighting each other because the only way they can find a winner is for them to make a SUPER SEED MODE oh wait

    • Kah says:

      You… did you watch g00-2? It fell over in alot of the same ways GSD did…. possibly in all the same ways GSD did, in fact.

  15. Bruce says:

    LOL , top notch review .

    i don’t imagine myself ever watching this without the need of alcohol , i tortured myself enough with SeeD and i’m not gonna listen to the voices in my head that compels me to watch another 50ep of compressed filth .

    but , wow the nerve to actually revive and reuse a popular character because they don’t feel like making a new one , not only that , but give him a happy ending with his lover like nothing ever happened … it’s just shows how rushed Destiny is .

    • Thanks!

      Rushed is one thing, but I’m not so sure that if they had time they’d be able to change a lot of the shitty things. After all, do they really want to? For all we know they really like how everything turned out!

    • Kaioshin Sama says:

      Actually I’m pretty sure they actually did all the stuff they did on purpose and just thought it was genuinely acceptable storytelling for a Gundam franchise. The show was just produced cheap as hell despite the money that was supposedly put into each episode.

      Thing is Mitsuo Fukuda got his start at Sunrise working in the kids show department with much lighter fare like Cyber Formula GPX and Gear Fighter Dendoh and should have been expected to step up his game a bit for a Gundam entry, but frankly didn’t step it up at all. I mean the guy and the producers got his bloody wife to write the show as opposed to getting a legitimate and proven scriptwriter which Sunrise has all the money in the world to do any time of any day. Instead we got “The Wife” who was legendary for turning in scripts at the last second or just not bothering to turn them in on time at all which led to the clip shows being aired instead.

      The whole thing kind of turned into a personal project if folks couldn’t tell and yes indeed Kira and Lacus were cited by “The Wife” and Fukuda as their favourite characters. In fact if I recall “The Wife” had an almost creepy attachment to Kira Yamato, which probably led to him being pushed back to the forefront of the story.

  16. Shinmaru says:

    I think by the one-third point of SEED Destiny I was doing OVER 9000 double takes each episode at how butt-fuckingly retarded each episode was. The final stretch is just … something else. Meer’s stupid episodes (who fucking CARES about her??), two recaps in the last nine (WHAT), Ray going batfuck insane, the eye-rollingly stupid recall to Mu’s sacrifice in SEED, Jesus Yamato, Shinn x Lunamaria (god what a fucking nightmare), and so on and so forth. Just … fuck, what.

  17. sadakups says:

    So much pink… my eyes are burning!

    Oh god. I’ve been waiting for this. You basically nailed a lot of points on why this show is notorious for what it is. I actually enjoyed Destiny on my second time. I enjoyed laughing at how horrible this show was, while the show actually tries to be serious.

    I’m linking this again to you in case you haven’t heard it. Hearing it straight from Chris Guanche gives a different insight on Destiny.

    http://gundamnmahq.blogspot.com/2009/03/gundamn-mahq-ep-031-destiny-calls.html

    • The pink comic sans ms font is perfect. Don’t hate.

      I don’t know if I could ever rewatch this show, but I’ve done worse things (and I did download the blu-ray rips of ZZ Gundam /fail /facepalm).

      I listened to the SEED roundup and was kind of surprised but not really at how much they liked the show.

  18. foshizzel says:

    Rofl ghost XD best Twitter comments ever from you :P

  19. Chan says:

    Wow you actually finished it congratulations, no really congratulations.

    I once watched GSD the whole way through when ti first aired episode after episode hoping that the series wouldn’t be so bad, hoping that the glimmer of what would have been the makings of a decent show. But alas that glimmer started to fade after the first 5 episodes, and I remember the sense of dread I felt, as though I was about to watch the crappiest thing I have ever seen, worse than even Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (and no I’m being completely serious), a movie that was less of a train wreck than this series (at least it had a coherent main character).

    There were times where I just face palmed at the sheer stupidity of the characters, I’m sorry why did people believe that Meer was Lacus again? I can see the difference between them just by one glance. Then there’s the fact that you also pointed out why didn’t Durandal just use another girl without having her pretend to be Lacus, after all Lacus “abandoned” PLANT didn’t she? To use a new girl erases the trouble that they might have gone through and would go through if and when Lacus decides to come back. Not only that but the girl’s usefulness won’t be lost from Lacus’s reappearance.

    I also never liked the idea that GSD and GS in general used with a songstress having so much political power. I was always wondering to myself why did they do that? It made no sense what so ever. I wondered if they were trying to take a page out of Macross’s book, but since Kawamori at least had the brains to know that that wasn’t a very good idea thankfully Macross had never done this. This is weird because their singers ultimately are considered more the heroes than the mecha pilots in their worlds and are therefore remembered more for their actions, and not just their merit. But even those singers don’t hold any political power which to me seems much more realistic.

    But I digress good job for actually finishing the sad sad excuse for a sequel that calls itself Gundam Seed Destiny, and I believe that you sir are wholly a sadist for forcing those people to have to suffer through it with you.

    • Credit to where it’s due, those statements you allude to are from Sheryl.

      I can imagine the Sunrise staff thinking that divorcing the idol performances from the magic powers (i.e. Macross 7) would make their take “realistic.” Then they did Gundam 00 wherein Marina’s song travels through space and time as if through fold waves.

      I think Gundam is best when it’s starting trends, not following them.

      Thanks for all the kind words. I feel oddly accomplished.

      • Chan says:

        Ah yes I’m sorry, thank you Sheryl for making me remember one of the reasons why I face palm every time I see a statement saying that Lacus has political power in PLANT. Also thank you for being logical and pointing out exactly why its such a bad idea to have some impersonate her to use her political power when she’s still alive and why it is better to just make a new girl become a singer instead of just impersonating another one. Though the logic failure of this series probably had you wincing in pain, or face palming (or maybe both). Thankfully though the people in your world are smarter than the people of Gundam Seed Destiny, and FYI both you and Ranka are better singers than Lacus.

        Gundam needs to stop borrowing from Macross, they fail at it. If only because Kawamori and other Macross writer are at least aware of the fact that having a singer hold political power is just bullshit.

        True, if Gundam didn’t start any trends then we wouldn’t have gotten any of the awesome Mecha series we have today.

        • Lacus, Meer, Marina… the lot of them.

          It started when Z Gundam just had to HAD TO be a transformable aircraft robot, as if the show needed that to be great. I haven’t seen a transforming suit that actually looks okay. Everything looks incredibly weird or non-functional or both.

          • Chan says:

            You know its funny Macross first started out as a parody and deconstruction of Gundam, only to have Gundam copy off of Macross.

            The Valkyries look awesome but then again, they actually has a legitimate storyline reason for being a transformable mecha, unlike those Gundam shows.

          • I’m not very comfortable making Macross out as it’s a parody of Gundam perhaps the way Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a parody of the entire mecha subgenre. Sure there are deconstructive elements, but I think they’re there as added value to the core value of telling a robot fantasy in a science fiction world. The creators are the biggest Gundam faggots who weren’t working for the Gundam project (and for Sunrise) at the time.

            It’s remembering love too, and perhaps for the most part.

            Z Gundam and perhaps all the subsequent shows in the 80s after Macross started using transformable robots as a tacked-on feature kind of like how so many robots started combining after Getter Robo did it in the 70s.

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  22. BenDTU says:

    There stands, to this day only 3 mecha anime series I’ve ever dropped. SeeD Destiny is one of those series. After the first episode. Right after they decided to pull a Super Robot transformation sequence for who-knows-what reason.

    Worst anime ever though? Man, that’s a pretty big call. Have you not seen Dangaioh?

    • Well, that’s not exactly being fair, because the original RX-78-2 Gundam had a core-block system; parts combined with the Core Fighter (which was a mass-produced aircraft unit IIRC). It was still the thing to do in 1979 (the Gattai thing). In 1987 they redid the whole thing, but this time, the other parts of the ZZ Gundam were piloted too, making it even a more proper Gattai. In the 90s, Victory Gundam used this A LOT, by always combining mass produced parts, and having semi-combined parts able to fight as some kind of freak fighter craft.

      If there are worse shows than this one, there is not a single atom of desire in my being to seek them out and experience them.

  23. sakura says:

    You finished it and you’re still somewhat sane!

    I had to be confined to a padded cell for a while after my first watch through of this.

    Every once in a while they make me rewatch it again as therapy to make sure it can’t mind fuck me to the extent I want to kill people. Then they know its safe to release me back into public again.

    They discovered that they could eliminate the GSD induced psychosis by making me watch Macross actually. So my time as a test subject wasn’t wasted.

    At last watch it barely raised my blood pressure, I’m now immune to the effects of its EPIC SUCK!

    In all seriousness, I think my major hate of it, stems from the fact I didn’t hate Seed. That’s not to say there were a LOT of aspects of Seed I didn’t hate. The emo crying for one.

    There is no crying in baseball and there should be no effing crying when you’re in a big, giant, kick ass mecha. (Note this is mainly why I can’t get through an episode of Evangelion, seeing Shinji cry, just sets of my rage and I want to choke the whiny, little bitch to death) and brings me to a top reason to hate Destiny. SHIN!

    He actually made me like Kira more, just because he actually cried less. I had never thought it possible that someone could cry more in a mecha anime, but then Shin came along. I even wondered if it was a subtle piss take at Shinji, before I decided that Destiny’s writers weren’t smart enough to be that clever.

    Its amazing no major cities had to be evacuated when he was around, since the flood of tears we had to put up with every other episode could have caused some major flood damage.

    Who needs a Gundam when you have Shin! Drop him in the middle of a city, blast his sisters last voice message on a loudspeaker and watch the destruction unfold.

    But my main reason for hating Destiny? The utter raping of any kind of positive character development they made in Seed. Athrun finally effing gets somewhere by the end of Seed, only to do a complete effing 180 in Destiny and be all WTF am I fighting for? Didn’t we just already spend 52 episodes of Kira and Athrun angsting over this? WTH do we have to go through it again?

    You think at some point a superior would have made it really clear to him. You’re in the military, you fight for whatever the Commander in Chief tells you to fight for!

    Do I even need to mention Cagalli? Comes off as almost badass in Seed, doesn’t take any bullshit and then we get to Destiny and she starts to give Shin a run for his money in the crying department.

    She allows herself to be pushed around and can’t even seem to stand up for herself to the extent she almost marries that sack of crap Yuna. For being so pathetic, Kira should have just left her alone to marry the douche, it would be a fitting punishment.

    Pretty much expected the resurrection of La Flaga, so I can’t even get worked up about this one. Besides he and Murrue are cute together and they helped calm my rage by appealing to my inner romantic.

    In fact, I’d have probably been happier with 00 had they done something similar, instead of bringing back Lockon, but a far inferior model of him. Lyle always hated to be compared to Neil and for good reason, because he knew he older twin was just BETTER!

    Lockon was my fave Meister and it kills me that his replacement (Lyle) is such an effing moron. Though I really do have to cut him some slack over the whole Anew thing. Since no-one else on board picked up on the fact she was an Innovator, even Tierra, which considering how often they ran into trouble since she was brought on board, kind of boggles the mind that no-one figured it out.

    The second season of 00 made me want to tear my hair out at times, but no-where near as bad as Destiny did.

    Thankfully for the makers of Seed, you can make me watch any robot show so long as I find the mecha shiny, pretty and badass enough.

    Which reminds me, if I ever want that 00 Raiser kit I need to get my ass into gear and build that VF-27…

    Research studies have also show the best way to cure mecha induced rage in Sakura is to give her a model kit to play with :)

    • Hahaha the rage and hate are strong in you!

      RE. crying.

      I actually think Ikari Shinji is an excellent character in that he was the only truly reluctant 14 year-old that’s forced to fight. This is what forced to fight really looks like. He isn’t a fantasy and that’s part of what makes Evangelion so fucking good. It messed with our expectations of what a lead pilot should be.

      How? Because lead pilots in robot anime are aspirational fantasy figures. 14 year olds, 15 year olds with prodigious abilities and indefatigable courage: Seriously? In gang fights there is a world of difference between punk-ass high school kids and rough college age kids… and a world of difference between those macho ruffians and real soldiers. The fantasy of “real robot” anime is that such kids can handle war, and even better, win them with their own powers.

      It starts with Amuro who didn’t even get any real training. And the fantasy continues with Hikaru taking a 6-week run in boot camp and then he’s a combat leader after 3 missions. BOTH are very reluctant soldiers. Hikaru wanted no part in the war until Minmay became his real incentive, along with unemployment and lacking any other opportunity to fly. Shinji reminds us how someone truly forced to pilot really is, stripped away of the hero fantasy.

      However, so many people took Shinji’s crying bouts as ENOUGH characterization to portray reluctance to fighting and killing, and being conflicted and emotionally affected related to battle. THIS is why you get shit like Kira and Shinn. And if you wanted even more reluctance and damage, you get Stella.

      • sakura says:

        I have been very full of rage lately, I think its hormone fueled. I fail as a Jedi but would make an EPIC Sith :)

        Oh god Stella, a character I may have hated even more than Shin! Do a long twirly spin off a short pier sweetie. I promise I will gut anyone who attempts to save her from drowning!

        I actually concede that Shin is worse than Shinji, because at least Shinji had a reason to cry.

        In Shin’s case, its not like he was particularly crying about having to fight, he just cried about everything! It got to the point where I couldn’t even find sympathy for the fact he lost his family any more. I just became apathetic to him.

        And as you point out Shinji didn’t really have a choice, Shin chose to fight. He could just have easily got some therapy and got on with his life.

        Maybe the reason I don’t care for Evangelion is because I prefer the fantasy hero archetype in my mecha anime, instead of gritty realism.

        Which is probably why I love Macross so damn much, drama, but with a healthy dose of FUN!

        • Indeed. NGE was a slap in everyone’s faces LOL, and a lot of us kinda like it. Even so, a lot of fools who hated Shinji (which included me for many years) loved Eva for many other reasons. You should also know that the other lead character in Eva is one of the truly awesome female characters in robot anime: Katsuragi Misato. Haters go die.

          But yeah, Shinn. RAEG. Even making fun of him is too aggravating.

  24. Rxsiu says:

    Hey, I could finish S+GSD, but I couldn’t get past 20 of ZZ. And this was while it was airing, but I thoroughly enjoyed GSD at that time for similar reasons; picking out it’s flaws and hating on it was hilarious fun!

    That said, Seed and Destiny weren’t without it’s successful bits. Some of their MS designs, while they have giant backpacks, are quite nice. I’m looking at both mainstream units like the Strike (IWSP is so delicious) and MSV like Kerberos Bucue (3 heads? pure melee dogsuit? at least it’ll look amazing while being a stupid idea). Also, the music was pretty good for the most part, both songs and background music.

    • I keep forgetting to mention the music, which I think is some of the best in all of Gundam.

      Unfortunately I cannot share your taste for the MS units, and I never really like it when Gundam takes its cues from other mecha shows: transformable units from Macross, a piloted Ravage from Transformers (Gaia, Stella’s unit), and those Zoids (BuCues).

      I truly hate ZZ and I finished it in good faith wanting to see it end well, but no.

      Yeah, that pretty much says it for me, but if you need more, I did write about ZZ extensively.

      • Oh lighten up. Zeta gundam was ridiculously sexist (Reccoa’s heel turn, Emma saying “you let your women emotions impede your judgement” Haman being an angry women scorned a la clymenetsra and medea, mour four kamille’s mom rosamia dying to feed the angst of either Jerid or Kamille’s angst) Charbeing held as some paragon even though he’s a douchebag, the needless and constant “souls weighed down by gravity, Emma dying a stupid death (getting out of the cockpit in a war zone). ZZ had a stronger second half than the first, a more likable hero and a better female cast

  25. kadian1364 says:

    I’m going to replace all instances of “GSD” with “Geass R2″ in your post and call it mine. :3 But seriously, sometimes witnessing the spectacle of negative fan reactions is where the real value is in seeing a terrible-yet-astoundingly-popular show. GSD, R2, and OreImo this season (to a much lesser extent); it’s not like we’re really trying to convert people to our way of thinking about them (though it could be a welcome side-effect), we watch these blockbuster trainwrecks just to participate in the water cooler conversation and because we “love to hate”. They are the low-hanging fruit, after all.

    • Exactly. I just want to have all us haters be real about things. It’s not like being a hater for a few shows becomes indicative of our whole being. I’ve begun to stress a little about how some of the most popular posts here in WRL (those that get discussed in boards and forums, those that get lots of comments from all over, those that have ‘legs’ — getting comments months and months after publication) are my hate posts on Gundam:

      I Love Gundam But I Don’t Love Gundam Wing.
      10 Reasons Why Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam is Awesome.
      The Need for (Gundam) SEED: Masochism and Sadism.

      … then this one. Jesus Yamato I’m such a hater! This is my legacy and contribution to the body of criticism on robot anime. It’s a good thing I’ve run out of Gundam shows to hate. Victory Gundam bores me, and Gundam X fails to interest me in any way at present (I’m almost done with V, and barely started X); neither have the massive fanbases who would care for a post like this.

      Oh yeah, fuck I did write about and hate on School Days didn’t I? That sure got people talking. What a hater.

    • Huntsman says:

      @kadian1364:

      That is, of course, tacitly assuming those who are reading this blog post are going to agree (or at least sympathize) with such a line of thought. Well, I don’t…and what’s more, my disagreements are both general and specific.

      Conceptually, I don’t find this kind of almost sadomasochist enjoyment to be that worthwhile, in all honesty, particularly when dealing with full-length series instead of shorter works.

      This is a personal matter, but…is the time investment worthy of the necessary effort? I can’t really see myself watching anything longer than a two hour movie simply for the sake of self-indulgent mockery as hatred (or self-indulgent hatred as mockery, if you prefer). It seems…far more destructive than constructive to dwell on absolute negativity rather than assume a more nuanced or balanced form of appreciating entertainment.

      I usually only keep watching if there’s something genuinely interesting or entertaining left, in spite of whatever flaws or ridiculous elements might also be involved. My suspension of disbelief has certain limits, admittedly, but it’s actually quite flexible. Nevertheless, I’ll still drop a show if I happen to lose interest too quickly. Which, for the record, is what ultimately prevented me from completing SEED Destiny….but not so with Geass R2, curiously enough, for reasons that I may allude to shortly.

      However…while you’ve tried to suggest otherwise, the underlying implication still appears to be that those who don’t agree about the exact degree of “terribleness” corresponding to any given fictional work that can (supposedly) only be enjoyed in an ironic manner must be either blind or deluded (hence your being “astounded” as to why this or that “terrible” show reaches a certain level of popularity instead of being universally shunned).

      I find such an attitude to be rather indicative of a very close-minded point of view that often leads to flaming and trolling as opposed to any sort of reasonable discussion. After all, those who don’t see why something is so “terrible” must be foolish or stupid, unworthy of any respect or debate…no? Many of them might well fit such a description, admittedly, but not everyone does.

      Which, ironically, may actually make you and your fellow “ironic” viewers far more likely to preemptively assume the worst and dismiss potentially valid explanations or interpretations (whether they are presented by the show itself or its fans) because they don’t fit preexisting expectations or, essentially, go outside the borders of an exceedingly cynical outlook.

      Needless to say, I beg to differ. Specifically, I don’t think it’s accurate to completely equate R2 with Destiny regardless of all the brouhaha. They are both flawed shows, yes, but they are not necessarily equal. Not that I have any illusions of changing your mind, by any means, but while Code Geass R2 does share some of Gundam SEED Destiny’s problems (by which I mean both objective issues that can be easily acknowledged -such as bad pacing or general sloppiness- and purely subjective complaints that are extremely debatable -such as matters of characterization and so on) it’s still a better show in several respects.

      For one thing, there was never any confusion about who was supposed to be the protagonist in R2. For another, the show always had an openly melodramatic / soap opera-ish vibe that actually happens to be more intentional than unintentional in spite of popular opinion suggesting otherwise. The staff knew that not everything was supposed to be taken seriously in the first place. And finally, the ending can be accused of being naive or idealistic on the surface but nevertheless was well executed and rather appropriate. I could say more -suffice to say that the writing has glaring flaws and yet also contains certain merits, not just one or the other- but a full discussion probably isn’t worth it after so much water has passed under bridge.

      In short, I respect your point of view but consider it necessary to present at least a partial rebuttal, as opposed to just joining in the seemingly universal applause.

      • kadian1364 says:

        Alright, I didn’t mean to exactly place Destiny and R2 in equal standing. Destiny is, after all, an anime infamous for doing everything wrong. I wanted to convey that I believe the way Ghostlightning got through GSD is similar to how I got through R2, by clinging to the ridiculous faults and choosing to laugh with similarly opinionated fans rather than cry. The key point is sharing the experience with like-minded peers; that is what makes the experience fun. Otherwise it is like sadomasochism, putting oneself through a grueling, painful experience for the sake of experiencing pain.

        Blogging, chatting, and non-professional reviews are just fan activities, a social game we play. Yes, most of us try to be fair critics, but we sometimes we don’t want to do that. Venting some steam, like Ghostlightning expressing his deep displeasure here on his blog, or just on some anonymous internet forum, can be healthy, creative, and meritous. Those are the rules we’ve decided to conduct ourselves here, in this one post. Obviously ghostlightning and I are game enough to address your complaints, but literary analysis isn’t the point of this particular piece. We just want to swap horror stories with our friends.

      • Conceptually, I don’t find this kind of almost sadomasochist enjoyment to be that worthwhile, in all honesty, particularly when dealing with full-length series instead of shorter works.

        This is a personal matter, but…is the time investment worthy of the necessary effort? I can’t really see myself watching anything longer than a two hour movie simply for the sake of self-indulgent mockery as hatred (or self-indulgent hatred as mockery, if you prefer). It seems…far more destructive than constructive to dwell on absolute negativity rather than assume a more nuanced or balanced form of appreciating entertainment[...]

        [...]I find such an attitude to be rather indicative of a very close-minded point of view that often leads to flaming and trolling as opposed to any sort of reasonable discussion. After all, those who don’t see why something is so “terrible” must be foolish or stupid, unworthy of any respect or debate…no? Many of them might well fit such a description, admittedly, but not everyone does.

        Which, ironically, may actually make you and your fellow “ironic” viewers far more likely to preemptively assume the worst and dismiss potentially valid explanations or interpretations (whether they are presented by the show itself or its fans) because they don’t fit preexisting expectations or, essentially, go outside the borders of an exceedingly cynical outlook.

        Worth, value is your prerogative obviously. I’m more interested in calling out those who don’t acknowledge that they’re haters. There are those who pretend to lash out at a show as if they’re staunch defenders of anime quality. I find the inauthenticity galling.

        If you’re looking for serious discussion of the show(s), it’s best to avoid the specific posts wherein the authors obviously dump on the subject and invite others to do so. Attempting to discuss the show seriously in such an environment is buzzkill and the buzzed/intoxicated haters would bring the discussion back to revelry by flaming you and causing drama. It’s simply not the place for that.

        You’re better off writing your own blog posts, or creating a forum thread with specific guidelines. If you look around this blog you’ll see that posts like this one are exceptions rather than the rule.

  26. SquareSphere says:

    I watched all of it cause I think there was a shortage of mecha at the time. The one thing I’ll never forgive GSD for is Hiene. Here was a guy that was level headed, had skills, and looked to be a good mentor to Shin over that waffle iron Arthrun.

    He piloted a GOUF! and kicked the ever living shit out of a Gundam! Here I thought was the 2nd coming of Patrick Norris * no Zaku indeed :3 * Then he goes kaput :( such a tease, I really thought he was going to be a big part of the plot.

  27. jsjsjs says:

    apparently, people hate GSD for the reused scenes, nearly god mode pilots, illogical stuff, etc, 1 thing i was wondering(even after finishing the series) was how the fuck the destiny gundam chopped a destroy gundam(that might be bigger then the psycho gundam) right in half, from top to bottom with an antiship-sword. anyway, shinn was doomed in the beginning, he was fighting with someone with a near perfect gundam, a gundam with 8 DRAGOONs, 2 beam guns, 2 cannons on the hip, 2 beam sabers, and a positron beam launcher, what he has is a gundam with 1 anti ship sword, 1 positron beam launcher, 2 boomeranges and 1 beam gun. and, looking at the mecha anime posts you have, you must really love mecha, i recommand you to watch zegapain if you want good mecha with good story and character development.(since i don’t see any zegapain posts here)

    • An anti-ship sword would be the ideal weapon to cut a mobile armor in half.

      Yes I really love mecha, and I’ll look into Zegapain. I have a rewatch of Eureka SeveN ongoing, then I have Infinite Ryvius next, then Aura Battler Dunbine, then I have to finish VOTOMs, V Gundam, Gundam X; then I have Aura Battler Dunbine.

  28. ariannasterling says:

    I actually enjoyed what I’ve seen of the series, but what I’ve seen consists of like, 5 episodes. It’s one of the things I plan to finish…eventually. I’m not too excited for it, but that’s because it’s mecha and mecha isn’t exactly one of my favourite things.

    Still, now I know that I apparently shouldn’t get my hopes up too much.

    • It can really be attractive to non-mecha fans for some reason — perhaps the action is similar enough to shonen action shows. Also Gundam SEED, GSD, Gundam 00, Gundam Wing, Sengoku Basara, Code Geass, are all shows that inspire various amounts of rage and have very, very large female fan bases.

      Your mileage may vary.

  29. Caraniel says:

    Fantastic post! The addition of hearts & stars to Athrun & Kira’s name adds beautifully to the perfection of the pink comic sans font~!

    I love to hate Gundam SEED Destiny more than I actually hate it.

    Think that this hits the nail soildly on the head. I remember enjoying SEED when I was watching it – it was only the 2nd Gundam series I had attempted (Wing being the 1st) and probably only the 3rd mecha series I had ever watched…….and I liked it at the time. I then decided to immediately go on to GSD despite having heard it wasn’t as good; well fuck if that wasn’t the understatement of the century!

    I watched it all. I couldn’t look away from the trainwreck that was unfolding before my eyes, and I finished the series in a weekend. To this day I don’t know how I did it – such massive amounts of crap in one go can not be good for anyone’s soul……the multicoloured rainbow beam spam and the way the Gundam’s lit up like overdecorated christmas trees, Meer Campbell, STELLAAAAAAA~!, Shinn Fucking Asuka, Godamned Jesus Yamato, Athrun ‘The Pimp’ Zala, the retardedness of the “plot” – all of it amounted to a terrible, terrible show.

    Still I can’t in good faith say that I didn’t enjoy it on some level – its so utterly amusing to make fun of, in embracing the hate you get a strange sense of pleasure….although that could be just an indication of how utterly broken GSD made me.

    I salute you for finishing it ghost!!

    • Thank you!

      Your experience of it almost exactly mirrors mine! I watched over 100 episodes in less than 6 weeks all told. 100 fucking terrible episodes. How did we do it? How can we possibly do it? Beyond my retardedness for Gundam it’s just got to be love for hating these shows.

  30. Ryan A says:

    Read this, LOL’d because I’ve absolutely no clue what was going on, but awesome panel!

    On another note, this is probably the type of show I’d hate. I don’t like the idea of getting off on hating a series because it is so disagreeable and/or unwieldy, but could you imagine this kind of thing being absorbed in the aniblogosphere? I mean, Geass R2 was bad enough, but thankfully GSD was just before the blogosphere started to take off in 05.

    Great post!

    • Thanks!

      A lot of the hate for Code Geass R2 (and Gundam 00 S2) is heavily informed by the hate for GSD. All of these are Sunrise anime, whose reputation has been heavily tarnished by the Gundam SEED franchise; particularly for being so wildly successful via shows of highly suspect quality.

      • sakura says:

        I think the issue is Sunrise is not necessarily the quality, but that they can’t seem to sustain it, or rather build upon the good elements for a second season.

        I mean we all enjoyed GS enough to check out GSD, Gundam 00 enough to check out S2 and Code Geass enough to check out R2.

        So they do well enough on the first season of those shows, to gain our interest and then seem to crap the bed when it comes to a second season.

        • The thing is, I don’t think much of SEED at all. But yes, they have trouble with sequels do they.

        • Huntsman says:

          Though I’d argue 00 S2 was better than R2 and, by extension, R2 was better than Destiny, so going by your logic at least Sunrise is gradually learning from their mistakes. What I’ve already written above notwithstanding, mind you, as I still believe it applies.

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  32. ~xxx says:

    The only Gundam series I liked was the Gundam X. and then there goes Gundam 00 which anyway didn’t make sense to me.

    GSD is indeed one of my hated shows(not that bad, I just gave a D to that.)
    Geass on the other hand learned that Gundam seed destiny truly suck and decided to make things a bit old-fashioned and put brains in fighting rather than the heart alone. So that puts Code Geass a respectable anime.

    I haven’t watched Gundam 00 S2 so I can’t point if it is good or better.

    • I’m not sure what you mean when you say:

      GSD is indeed one of my hated shows(not that bad, I just gave a D to that.)
      Geass on the other hand learned that Gundam seed destiny truly suck and decided to make things a bit old-fashioned and put brains in fighting rather than the heart alone.

  33. oh, finally; so you do enjoy the SEED series, at least with GSD. I salute you mi amigo.

    well, although this is not Gundam I hope you’ll also enjoy the story of this: [Click here]


    :-)

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  39. randomfellow says:

    (Spoilers if you haven’t seen G Gundam yet)

    Hey, hold the phone there (yes, I know this is an old journal), but I think you’re cutting Shinn short even more than the writers did. Shinn (at first) at the start of the seres was always about doing what he felt was the right thing, such as like
    1) Saving Stella even though everyone told her to leave her for dead
    2) Ripping open the gates of the enslaved people
    3) Saving Athrun from burning up in the atmosphere instead of leaving like Athrun told him too.
    4) Telling Cagaili that Orb’s twisted sense of neutrality is what got his folks killed

    I’m definitely not going to tell you that he isn’t rough around the edges, but not only are several Gundam pilots (Domon Kasshue, Kamille Vidan) for all of his anger, name never goes lashing out and stealing mobile suits because someone told him he has a funny name.

    The only time he became ORDERS ARE ABSOLUTE!! is on that terrible Episode 36 where the writers need Shinn to attempt to murder Athrun for no good reason other than Athrun to get away and get a new Gundam, and even after that malarkey, they have to lie to him about it.

    The trouble is that
    1) They gave him no character arc, or not enough screentime to his own
    2) He doesn’t have any new characters to play his own character off of, just Athrun, who is too busy repeating his development and wishy-washiness
    3) There aren’t any NEW antagonist characters to play him off of, just old characters to get into trouble with. When the hacks ran out of scripts to do, they make Shinn and Rey, the mooks ,so Kira and Athrun have named characters to beat up and then look cool.

    So what this results is in character whiplash, Shinn’s amount of respect for Athrun changes as much as Athrun does change sides, and instead of giving him his own rival character to face off with, it’s either Kira or Athrun who have a whole series of favoritism under their belts.

    Compare him directly with Domon Kasshu of G Gundam, and while they have roughly similar issues that give them the chip on their shoulder (dead parents, thought Domon has one still alive). Domon has his own friends and rivals, people close to him become enemies (Master Asia), people who were his enemies before become his friends (the Shuffle Alliance), and you can play his character off his childhood friend. He seems kind of like a douchebag to her at times, but you can see that he really cares for her, and those moments grow along the series.
    Even the other characters have other things going on, and while Domon makes up large part of this story, he’s not the complete center of the universe (unlike the Super Coordinator and Lacus Clyne).
    Even with all that, it takes Domon 40 episodes before he stops lashing out at anyone in anger that doesn’t deserve it. And even that leap in his character takes help from one German Ninja.

    Remember the name of Shinn’s friends from the first episode, and that mechanic guy he talked too on episode 3/4? I sure as hell don’t, and that’s because there’s too many characters and none of the screentime is being shared with the newer ones. Don’t get me started on the EA’s lack of characters

    It’s entirely possible that they wouldn’t have made him a very good character if they gave him all the time he needed, but I’d like to think he had the makings of one.
    But I think it’d only be fair to point out that he was given a lame horse at the start of the race to begin with!

    • http://twitpic.com/47iii9

      Comparing Shinn favorably to Domon makes me puke. Shinn can go to hell.

      • randomfellow says:

        I compared the two (wow, this is late, but I was lead back here from the Gundam 00 post) because they’re both in Gundam shows.

        My point is that they both start off with chips on their shoulders, and one was allowed to be a main character and the other was written by a complete hack, along with late scripts and being turned into the bad guy.

        Does this mean that there’s a good character down there? No, it’s how it played out, and if you ask me, all of the characters are terrible. My point is that he never had the chance to begin with.

        It’d be like taking Yusuke Urameshi, keeping him as a street punk and doing nothing more with him and shoehorning him into K-ON’s second season, while pretending his a major character
        It’s a disaster!!

      • Sakura says:

        Also, how much time do they need? They had 52 eps to make him a decent character, that’s plenty of time. Macross Frontier managed it in less, I loved Alto-hime from the get go!

  40. Lance says:

    Fuck you seed hater to tell that seed is the worst anime of all time youre a fucking idiot who does not know how to judge the quality of the show so what is good for you? Some 00 shit or any cheap fucking show you are a complete idiot dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Your eloquent defense touched, moved, and inspired me and undoubtedly all others to reconsider SEED and GSD as the greatest animated art of all time. Applause.

    • materium says:

      Because being butthurt shows that your opinion has more weight than other peoples’.

      Oh internet I love you.

    • Sakura says:

      I’ll take both seasons of 00 over Seed Destiny any day. In fact I’m finally going to watch the 00 movie this weekend. I can say with 100% I know I’m going to enjoy it more than Seed Destiny.

  41. Pingback: The Greatest Time To Be a Gundam Fan | We Remember Love

  42. narutoasakura1 says:

    I kinda hate this site >< I think people who badmouthing anime are just retards :D

  43. Pingback: On the Seventh Day of Christmas My True Love Gave to Me: Seven Gundam Universes | Oishii Anime

  44. banagherlinks says:

    I hated seed… But not in the same level in GSD and ZZ. Actually, the third season of Age also turns out to be a deep shit. The second season of 00 and movie is shit stick. Gah…… Modern day gundams *sigh*

  45. Pingback: We Remember Love Says Goodbye, and Thank You For All The Memories | We Remember Love

  46. Maximillion Genius says:

  47. Matt Wells says:

    How to enjoy Gundam SEED Destiny?

    Play SRW Z. You get to kick Kira’s ass, they fixed the story (by copy and pasting it onto Zeta Gundam), and Shinn actually has character development (though that’s all thanks to Kamille being his senpai). Also, you get to kick Kira’s ass. And Amuro flat out calls him a retard. Personal highlight there.

    Did I mention you get to kick Kira’s ass?

    If you want to get your Kira hate on a little more, then check out Gun X Sword. Awesome super robot show that has a anti-villain character who is Kira in all but name, down to the voice actor. He’s a misguided anti-villain/moral hypocrite that gets deconstructed pretty throughly.

  48. Maximillion Genius says:

    http://nicksotakuhome.blogspot.com/2012/11/otakunews-seed-destiny-getting-hd.html

    OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  49. lumine99 says:

    lol… I was wondering about how much gundam seed(Destiny) sucked… personaly I like this series(guess I was pretty young to critic this anime / I didn’t watch enough anime).
    well my reasons are..
    1. the gundam kickass (as far as I remember 1 gundam really makes the difference, unlike 00. don’t take me wrong though.. I also like 00)
    2. guess I (kinda) like godlike character. watching kira whipping everyone is kind of cool for me. (just like Izayoi in mondaiji)
    3. the mecha have good designs
    4. guess the word nuclear reactor sounds really cool for me back then
    5. the tech shown in the series..

    well this reply was made with nostalgia as a basis.. my view might change if I rewatched the series though…

  50. Ma Yong Kang says:

    I fking hate GSD ‘cuz that Kira is pwning everyone ass without a good reason. Plus, they made him so op that he looks like a god. FK him and his thought! Shinn was the protagonist until that peace homo took his place. It was a good character AND they ruined it! MS design was nice but that SF is nonsense. Destiny and impluse was the way to go. The dumbass comeback of old character is the shittest ever. Especially, Cagally with her dumb peace ideology that ruin the epic battle on the battlefield. OVERALL, FK YOU KIRA AND YOUR FRIENDS! The whole serie suck !

  51. I enjoyed the series, it comes as close as any story does of portraying how there is no good or bad side in war. There are people fighting for what they believe, or manipulating conflict for money.

    • FaintedUeda says:

      Really? Because in DESTINY, there ARE “good and bad” sides in a war: the “good” is anybody on Kira’s side, and “bad” is everybody else. This was a problem that the original SEED had too. This even extends to individual characters, as anybody righteous or good on an antagonistic side will have switched over to Kira’s faction by the end (often being RESURRECTED to do so). People often mistake the tendency of the SEED franchise to villainize both major political forces as grey morality, but because Kira is ALWAYS just and ALWAYS right and because he always ends up have a third faction form around his ideals, it’s actually just black and white morality.

      • paul says:

        You made good points FaintedUeda, however, throughout the first show (Mobile Suit: Gundam SEED) the characters were often questioned why their cause was more noble than everyone else’s and rarely did they even come up with an answer. The scene after Athrun supposedly killed Kira (Athrun is found ashore by Orb after the self-detonation), Caggali tackled the concept of “the enemy” or the “Us and Them” relationship between human beings. She pointed out the folly in human hatred as it originates in reciprocation. If I hate your people because you hate mine how will we ever solve our differences? That immediately removes the black and white morality and keeps the viewer (and characters) questioning: Who, or what, is the enemy?

        In the end of the first show this question isn’t truly answered. The characters just give up, become a third faction, and essentially accept that war and hatred is a part of what it means to be human. All they could do was live in the now and try to stop today’s war. I found myself wondering, do they stop today’s war in order to prepare for tomorrow’s? It wasn’t satisfying for me.

        The second show, Destiny, answers this lingering question in a fashion which confused the entire series for me. In Destiny, the answer comes not from any of the endorsed characters (protagonists) but one who is seen as evil, Chairman Durandal. Chairman Durandal proposes that it is our hierarchy which causes division and is the true enemy. As such, he proposes a plan which determines the destiny of every human being thereby ridding hierarchy. The desire to “be the strongest, to go the farthest, to climb the highest” along with jealousy and dominance will not exist according to the Destiny Plan. This is much like Aldous Huxley’s 1932 dystopian novel “Brave New World” in which all people are determined their jobs according to their genes thus, in this world, insuring the stability of society. Coincidentally, both the anime Destiny and “Brave New World” suffer from the same problem. Why is this goal, this ideal, bad? In Destiny we are never told why it is a bad idea, we as viewers simply must assume it is so. When the protagonists heard of Chairman Durandal’s idea they simply gasped in horror, there was no explanation as to their disapproval. I kept wondering, “Why did the antagonist give the only solid answer to one of the most important questions the protagonists’ asked?” This confused the roles of the characters even further, adding to the amazing critique ghostlightning gave above in the original post.

        All in all, I don’t think Mobile Suits: Gundam SEED initially presented a black and white morality. The characters at first questioned their motives and asked why they were fighting so-called “enemies”. They confronted their personal demons (their desire to kill each other) directly in scenes such as the one with Caggali and Athrun passionately discussing Athrun’s motives behind killing Kira and the naturals. Beginning at the endings of both installments, however, it quickly reverted back into black and white morality. The initial question asked “Who, or what is the enemy?” so many episodes ago is left unanswered and muddied.

  52. paul says:

    Destiny was pretty boring and somewhat of a chore to finish. I only liked that the war between naturals and coordinatoors continued as the first peace was illogical. Even though, that was clumsily done aswell.

    The reason MSGS (the first one) succeeds in my mind is due to the approach to the theme of genetic engineering. MSGS gives the audience a picture of the social impact that genetically modified humans will make in a realistic way (coordinaters more efficient, naturals jealous). The emotion brought by war and torn friendships was also powerful. Its difficult to see a human being as an enemy worthy of nothing but death when you know them. Everything else, however, was somewhat of a bore (Characterization, battle scenes, romantic relationships, Kira). I wish they did more with Rau La Creuset, he was very interesting and had a few good lines.

  53. Dude, we get it. You hate ZZ.

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