[No spoilers here]
I’m pretty much a Gundam fan. I totally buy into the whole thing: the toys, the significance in otaku culture, the inside jokes, and whole tradition. I haven’t seen all of the franchise (nor have read the manga and novels, nor have played all the video games), but I almost always welcome the idea of consuming more of it.
My first contact with Gundam is when my younger brother bought gunpla of Zeon suits: a Zaku from War in the Pocket, Char’s Gelgoog from First Gundam, and Quess Paraya’s Jagd-Doga from Char’s Counterattack. I had no idea how these suits fit in the narrative, but they were cool-looking robots. My first real significant contact with Gundam is through a Super Famicom game: Gundam Wing Endless Duel (1996). Man, I loved this game.
However, I had only seen Mobile Suit Wing Gundam in spurts when it aired on local TV (dubbed), and I couldn’t get into it at all, partly due I thought because I never properly saw the first few episodes. So, over a decade later I gave it a good try. I’ve had a good record of enjoying shows that I dropped in the past, which includes a whole lot of Gundam shows, and most recently Eureka SeveN. I felt confident that I’d get something good out of Wing. After all, it is a ‘gateway’ gundam for an entire generation of fans, especially in North America.
However, after 4 episodes. I dropped it again.
I dunno man, those 4 episodes seem so terrible to me. The first episode turned me off, but I watched 3 more just to confirm if how I felt would stay. Remember that I had every intention of enjoying this, to remember love if you will, for the video game and all the fun times with the OST. It’s just not working for me.
I take comfort in this advice:
[…] And really there’s no great obligation on fans to like the whole franchise.
When Gundam 00 came out it was compared to Wing and it was obvious to me immediately. However I really believe Gundam 00 is a vast improvement over this (except that Releena Peacecraft >>> Marina Ismail). There’s a lot of Gundam media out there. I’ll need a real compelling reason beyond satisfying a completist’s urges to finish this instead of watching more of the other, perhaps better shows in the franchise.
Lost Classics article on Gundam Wing Endless Duel [->]
Hell yeah I’m a Gundam fan [->]
In B4 “Ur a UCfag/oldfag” [->]
Completist’s urges — I mean this in the context of otaku behaviors I described here [->]
Mobile Suit Gundam Wing is a timeless piece of anime (Kiriska 2009/06/19)
Mobile Suit Gundam 00 is terrible (Kiriska 2009/06/18)
Haven’t seen any Gundam at all? Don’t know where to start? Find your Gateway Gundam!
You can take further comfort in the fact that I think the first four episodes are some of the weakest in the series. It doesn’t really start to get exciting until the coup de’tat in episode 7, after which Relena also gets slightly less aggravating. XD There undoubtedly could have been many other, better ways to start things off aside from highlighting just how LULZY some of these characters are. Then again, I also think that Wing does well in emphasizing that their main cast is comprised of fifteen year-old kids.
My friend and uberfag mechafetish really thinks that the first four episodes are actually the best of the lot, and that it’s a steep fall afterward LOL.
I may try again, as that is how I do things for shows I want to like, but it won’t be high on my priority list considering the size of my backlog. Also, I have all of SEED staring at me whenever I open my Gundam anime folder. I’m… very afraid though. LOL.
Ahaha, that’s pretty hilarious. XD
Also hilarious: I hold SEED in even higher regard than Wing, though this may change by the time I finish my rewatch of Wing (rewatching SEED is also a possibility, though also not high on my priority list). SEED may well have more things in it that will turn you off though, especially at the beginning. I’m not quite sure how I ended up with so many favorites that have fail beginnings though, considering how intolerant of them I usually am, lol.
I know what you mean. I think my personal best example is Macross 7.
Eventually it became my favorite sequel in the franchise [->]
That, despite all the crap I had to put up to get to the good stuff, as I documented in detail here [->] (Macross 7: Surviving the 1st 20 Episodes)
No spoilers, should you want to check out those posts.
You know, I’ve yet to see any of the Macross franchise. Skimming through those posts, I think you got me at the “VAMPIRES. IN SPACE.” part. I am yet unsure whether that’s a good get or a bad get, but you got me. XD You might have also made a post on this, but I figure I’ll ask anyway — which Macross is good to start off with?
Macross is absolutely linear, so you can start with Macross Zero. The list of shows arranged chronologically (narrative) are here [->]
The link also has a collection of the better Macross resources online, including blog posts.
That said, Zero‘s mileage may vary with you. Many fans have big-time problems with it. This might be helpful (my own take) [->]
Otherwise, the original series is the best!
Hmm, alrighty then. I think I’ll check out Macross Zero since it’s an OAV and then go to the original from there if I don’t hate it. 😛
DARNIT, GHOSTY. STOP REMINDING ME ABOUT THE NEED FOR ME TO PROVIDE A MASSIVE SHEAF OF NOTES SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ENJOY MACROSS 7.
I mean, it’s one of the most interesting shows once you learn how to READ THE THEMES.
Irony: Macross Frontier seems really shallow once you watch 7 and SUPAHDIMENSIONAL FORTRESS MACROSS and try to read into the characters. Basara and Hikaru are really, really interesting, if poles apart. Also, Mylene > Ranka > Minmei. Minmei may be the first, but Mylene is awesome (IF A BIT UNDERAGE), and Ranka isn’t fickle.
I can’t disagree. Macross Frontier is rather shallow compared to the shows you mentioned, though it does have the least number of episodes. The movies may change this.
I do think that Mylene is the most winsome of the idols. You can’t shake my love for Minmei though. You just can’t. Give it up.
Macross 7 is hands down my favorite sequel, seriously. Fuck the themes, turning galaxy eating monsters into fantards singing POWAA TO THE DREAM is one of the epicest things one can do in an anime.
Gundam Wing is almost unilaterally hated by big Gundam fans, almost on a SEED level but not quite. It’s a gateway to a drug that makes the old drug look like shit. Also, maybe it’s because you didn’t watch enough, but I’m also pretty sure Relena is one of those characters EVERYONE hates.
Yeah, I could never get into Wing even back in the day, but I always thought Duo Maxwell was fucking awesome.
Note that these statements are base don experience, not research
Duo annoyed me almost instantly, but then again Heero did too. Trowa as well. Quattre too, and Wu Fei just rubs me the wrong way. Wait, isn’t that ALL of them? FFFFF
But Wufei’s overt misogyny is so entertaining!
HAHAHAHAHAHA I’ll take your word for it. There’s this CG video part of Gundam Evolve where Master Asia kicks the crap out of all 5 Wing boys. I think that’s my favorite appearance of Wing characters in the extended metaverse.
LOL, need to see this. Yes.
Master Asia could kick the crap out of most of them, and the CE cast, with one hand tied behind his back.
Gundam Wing made me hate Gundam until I watched the whole of the 08th MS Team. Pretty boys and mecha do not go together unless said pretty boys are awesome.
So who would be a pretty boy that fits your bill? Suzaku?
For me it would be Alto. He doesn’t get much credit, but I do think he’s a pretty awesome character in his own right, just very different from the homely in comparison Hikaru, and the moronically loud and charming Basara. The case for Alto is well-presented by Crusader [->]
Yes, he’s pretty enough.
Tota agree with that haha XD
how long is it? if it were 12 episodes you’d watch it, right?
50 episodes. Yes if it were that short I would’ve soldiered on to finish it. It’s a shame really, as the Two-MIX OPs and the “It’s Just Love” ED are really quite delightful and are loved by many fans of the franchise as a whole.
OP 1: Just Communication
OP 2: Rhythm Emotion
ED 1: It’s Just Love
Man, Releena with the animals is just so damn cute.
Wing is 49 episodes actually. (NOT EPIC ENOUGH FOR 50 or 52??)
The ending freaked me out for a long time because Relena is not that badass! (Except for one scene, but all of her other stupidity cancels that out.)
I remember Toonami used bits of OP1 as the ending credits, and had their own clip show/montage to kick things off. Sounds weird now, but I loved how Toonami promoted the hell out of their shows back then.
Gundam Wing Promo:
Various Series Intros (including Wing’s):
Toonami Block Promo:
Toonami was really something else.
GOOD GOD OPTIMUS PRIME IS NARRATING FOR WING GUNDAM! I CAN’T STOP LAUGHING. THE SCRIPT IS GOLD! LOLOLOLOLOLWWWWWWWWW
But yeah, that’s pretty awesome work for hyping cartoons. These are gems!
Fuck yeah , even I have Just Communication in my youtube favorites, always liked that track. and also, don’t forget GW has a movie.
Yeah, with a Gundam that has WINGS WITH REAL GIANT FEATHERS! Gayest thing ever (not that gay is bad mind you, but don’t let the fanboys know because they will RAEG)
AHAHAHAHAH! That slideshow was good times.
I’m one of those from the generation of fans Toonami spawned off of the backs of DBZ and Gundam Wing, but for sake of total disclosure, I’ve never seen the whole series beginning to end. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen some of the earliest episodes, at least all together.
What I loved as a pre-teenager about “GW” was the robots at war, the shooting and explosions, and the outsized personalities. Basically, the idea of Gundam captured my imagination, more so than any perceived boons of execution or subtle characterization. Being the detail whore I am now, I doubt I’d have much better appreciation of the series than you. But that was then and this is now, and I haven’t looked back since.
However, for prettiest mech designs in the franchise, I still look to the Gundam Wing movie, Endless Waltz. Just gorgeous.
I really get what you’re saying about how the show successfully selling ‘the idea of gundam.’ It captured my imagination too via the video game and the songs.
However, I can’t really agree with you about Endless Waltz mecha designs. The Wing Zero Custom, with wings that have real feathers… it makes me want to mass produce BIG ZAMS and clone Dozle Zabi’s just to smash it.
I can’t really blame you. I’m one of those North American fans who viewed this show as their “gateway Gundam” and I fell in love with it. I was feverishly devoted to it & wouldn’t miss an episode during its whole late night run. The soundtrack is great, the designs for the mecha (the Gundams anyway) were beautiful and “sexy” and in terms of action, there is more than enough eye candy. But once I watched other shows in the metaseries, it made the shows flaws standout more. I don’t think most of the plot and characters rank high in Gundam catalog.
I would say to try & give it a shot overall, and hopefully some of the pacifist logic and the bevy of plot twists doesn’t turn you off too badly from all of the wonderful mecha action. I think it would at least give you a good perspective into what is “quality” Gundam & what is fluff.
Oh & I agree with 21stcentury…. Duo kicks much ass! My fav mechs from that series are Deathscythe, Epyon & Treize’s Tallgeese.
I like the Tallgeese. I named my first tennis racquet after it (a wilson oversize); my current racquet is a Wilson [k] Factor Tour 90, named ‘Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.’ Like I said to Kiri, I may try to watch this again someday, but there are other Gundam shows I’m looking forward to seeing right now (along with those I’m currently viewing).
I may be saying something that I am not totally aware of but I think the Gundam Wing series is the emo gundam series. It is confusing as for the antagonists inner theaters are much into play. That is my impression upon reading a backlog of blogs and posts from anime fans. Americans hold the most similar opinion to what I have said. Also it is amusing that Americano fujoshi’s also delight on the strong potential pairings among the male roster in the series. Hehehe
Gundam Wing for me is memorable for the gundam designs for its OAV. Hehehe. Just look at the Gundam Wing Zero! And the gundam with guns and the one with those big ass sickles! hehehe
Gundam Wing is the first overt play to court the interests of the fujoshi IMO. Sure you had pretty boys in the Universal Century, but here the character designs strongly reflect a bishonen aesthetic.
Emo? The original 0079 Mobile Suit Gundam is emo as hell. Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam is flat out grim. The difference between that and Wing (and SEED and 00) is that the ‘camera’ really enjoys portraying the pretty boys brooding and emotional, with long and languid looks at their tortured poses while they basically say “BOKU WA…” themselves a lot.
That, and “WHY MUST WE FIGHT/WHY ARE WE FIGHTING?!?!” Yeah, pretty much.
YES. Someone agrees, Endless Waltz Gundams were sick!
And I’ll pretend I never heard about the yaoi potential, as I always have.
Tieria Erde would never be as important protagonist without being some kind of joke back in the ’80s.
The Wing Zero Custom is gay. There, I said it. Not that gay is a bad thing, but yeah, it’s gayer than Tieria and Loran in a dress combined.
Gundam 00 (after finding out it would be directed by the guy who did FMA) was my gateway Gundam… for 3 odd episodes. After dropping that, I went on to try SEED. Thought it was better but not great for the first 10 or so episodes. And then Flay took over. I loved the series, and it is still my favorite Gundam (though the pool I’m drawing from isn’t all that large yet).
Wing fits perfectly in a post I recently wrote about good shows that didn’t compel me for some unknown reason. I like Wing. I think it’s great, from what I’ve seen. It’s far better than 00, in my eyes. Yet it’s on hold and I haven’t been quick to pick it up again. I really don’t understand myself at all sometimes…
I’m all for the diversity of tastes, and sharing them rocks! Even if nobody really changes their mind, consideration of other points of view is a big deal for me.
Not understanding yourself, that comes and goes. Writing about it gives you a solid (and public, lol) log of your own thinking over time.
In my experience whatever is the newest Gundam seems to automatically be taken as the “worst” Gundam, but it’s no secret that I tend to like all of the series on at least some level. Gundam 00 and G Gundam continue to get an absurdly bad rap though in my eyes, but I still think they are more than good enough at holding their own to deserve the Gundam name and I’m still sticking to that position.
Though I will admit that Gundam Wing does kind of waste a lot of time bouncing between organizations of the cour for the Operation Meteor crew to tangle with. First it’s the UESA, then Oz, then Romefeller, then White Fang, and finally both the Earth Sphere Unified Nation and White Fang at the same time.
I have a soft spot for 00, but even if I can understand the hate for G at some level, I think people are missing out. Then again, I don’t expect everybody to like everything the same way and for the same reasons, even for Macross.
I still have some fond memories of Wing, and someday I will write a post on why you are wrong, mostly since Treize was a better villain than the modern ones. Also at least in Wing Relena was occasionally bested by Dorthy while Princess Poverty just dragged down Gundam 00.
Besides OZ mobile suits did look good, sadly they had armor made of paper… At least back then the Buster Rifle only had 3 shots, and they were losing the overall war despite being unkillable…just saying.
Gotcha! If I’m wrong about this then all it means that the time I spent thinking about it and writing about it isn’t a waste, and there’ll be 45 episodes of Wing to get back to and enjoy.
…losing the overall war despite being unkillable, that makes it pretty interesting given the irony.
I really don’t know what kept me from going home early back in high school just to be in time to watch Gundam Wing at GMA7 (yes, I remember the thrill I got from skipping the last class one time). I dunno, maybe I was looking for the next mecha show since the triumvirate of Voltes V, Mazinger Z and Daimos. I admit I got hooked with Gundam Wing (for whatever reasons), but years after watching, just like seasoned Gundam fans, they find out the hard way that Wing isn’t that great.
While Wing made me interested in Gundam, but what really made me a Gundam fan was X. At first I hated it because it was NOT Wing (same reason why some people hate 00 is because it is NOT SEED), but eventually, I liked it after seeing the original Gundam trilogy.
I’ll be forever thankful for Wing for the introduction to the franchise, and I like all Gundam shows that I’ve seen to date. Of course, with the exception of Gundam SEED Destiny.
That’s what gateways do! Objectively I may not be able to prove that 00 is not as bad as SEED Destiny, or not as bad as Wing (going by JP Meyer’s enumeration of Gundam shows that have a hater following). It’s taste really, and I’m hoping he shares the ‘fan types’ he’s mentioned here.
You can tell what kind of Gundam fan someone is by which Gundam out of ZZ, G, Wing, G Saviour, SEED, SEED Destiny, or 00 they say is the worst.
LOL, I would like to know what are the kinds of fans are, beyond the Old/UCfag types and the newfags (names commonly thrown about). REVEAL THEM!!!
Though I haven’t seen ZZ or G Savior out of those, there’s no way either can be worse than SEED Destiny. What does that say about me??
That despite the fact you’ve never seen something you still seem to think you’re in a position to make a statement about it. :eyeroll:
G: oldfag that thinks that as UC is the apotheosis of Gundam
Wing: You hate how yaoi has been polluting Gundam ever since. This is one of the only ones that is cross new/oldfag
G Saviour: You’re trying too hard, because nobody has ever seen this
SEED: oldfag that hates newfags
SEED Destiny: newfag
00: really really newfag that is reflexively hating the newest show
Also, haven’t seen G Savior (obv) and only part of wing, so for me it’s a toss-up between ZZ, what I’ve seen of Wing, and SEED Destiny. Each is bad in its own way (desecration of UC vs. ridiculous plotholes/yaoi vs. complete collapse in its second half).
(SEED is seriously not that terrible and 00 is arguably the best AU series.)
OK, so that makes me a vanilla newfag. *shrugs*
And since G Saviour isn’t even listed on MAL, I can only assume that it’s the anime equivalent of some legendary mythic beast, like aliens, bigfoot, or the unicorn, where claims of a sighting instantly gains one the uncompromising skepticism from most, and the unwanted camaraderie of a few select crazies.
G Savior is actually a live action movie!
While I’m not an avid hater of the fujoshi-fication of the franchise, this list makes a lot of sense and is fun too.
Technically I’m a newfag trapped in an oldfag’s body and tries to be a UC fag but ends up liking almost everything he watches except Wing.
Gundam Frankenfag, I suppose.
Ahahahahahahaha. I lol’d.
But yes, I do agree that this list is a lot of fun and relatively insightful in its snark. XD
Well I think Seed Destiny is the weakest, but I’ve been into the franchise for over 10 years now and aware of it for even longer so I’m not sure this works.
I think ZZ is not bad, once you get past the AZTEC SPACE NINJAS part. I like Axis Zeon MS designs more than what the Titans delivered.
G is auto-win by default for me.
Wing is actually enjoyable if you watch it with your brain turned off. Wing Zero is the sluttiest mobile suit in existence, but those mobile dolls were pretty cool. And Treize is MANLY.
G Saviour does not exist.
I like SEED a lot, TBH. Maybe because I was a teen back then so I didn’t mind about screaming angsty teens either. The Desert Arc fights are one of the best out of Gundam AU.
Destiny is, uh, I have a litany of things against it, but my main complaint is that they trashed the serviceable ZAFT grunt MS designs for Zeon copypasta designs. HATE HATE HATE
00 is still great, all things considered.
You’re like me, in that
a) you like super robots (hence the G auto-win),
b) you appreciate in an apparent heirarchy of
1. mobile suit design
2. battles and duels
3. characters (manliness, awesomeness, etc.)
…so I’ll take your advice in consideration, but I will probably watch these shows when I have run out of Gundam to watch. Besides, only ZZ is the one that can leave a hole in the continuity. The rest are completely optional.
Wing somehow didn’t stick with me well. Sure, I tried to watch it three years ago. To this day, I still haven’t watched the last five episodes. The funniest part is I ended up watching all the other series between that time. This wasn’t even my gateway Gundam either, even though I grew up during the time when the series was at the peak of its popularity.
Hahahaha, that’s a strange case. What was the first show you liked then if Wing wasn’t your gateway into the franchise?
Most of the knowledge I got from playing the Journey to Jaburo game for the PS2. Was very interested in the story, but I had no real method of being able to watch the show. It wasn’t until I went to a local mall and I found the original movie trilogy. After some convincing, I got my mom to buy this $70 set. Not only was this my first venture into Gundam, it was the first anime I owned and my experience with the Japanese language. Didn’t realize this a subtitle only set. lol
Hahahaha. Consider that most of the 1st generation fans got into Gundam through that same trilogy. The 0079 series was a big flop, but the movies generated tremendous demand for more.
Yeah, I know. I just think its cool that while everyone else was watching Wing on TV, I was watching my DVDs for the second or third time. I’m actually going to try to rewatch Wing now. I might be able to finish it this time.
This was the first Gundam I ever saw, and I credit it with making me not want to see anymore. Course, you finally convinced me to watch the original (which I’m partway through and really digging). 00 reminded me so much of Wing that I assumed this was what the franchise was like. Gundamfags can blast me all they want, 00 is probably better but I’m still not a fan of either, and that’s an outsider perspective. Expect a wealth of posting when I finish 0079 Gundam.
Gotcha, they are indeed a lot like each other.
Wing is a massive hit, from which the creators learned a number of interesting things:
1. We can get a whole lot of girls into the show by using bishonen
1.1 We have to make them act tortured a lot, and some of them need to be sensitive and almost gay
1.2 This’ll work out as long as the main lead is stoic and badass-like, we can girlify others, including opponents
2. We should make more than one Gundam (they made 5, plus upgrades it adds up to 10)
2.1 In SEED everyone and his gay cousin pilots a Gundam
3. Gundams should be insanely powerful and act like Super Saiyans of the mecha genre
3.1 Yes, but not in a campy literal super robot subversion like G Gundam
3.2 Keep it political and shit
3.3 Use high schools, after all the characters are of that age
There could be more, but these lessons translated into boatloads of cash (especially the multiple Gundams which led to massive volumes of merch sales).
I’m looking forward to your 0079 posts. I suppose you’ve met dear old Ramba Ral, the kind of badass bad guy you’ll never see again in newer Gundam shows (in terms of age and character design).
WHY IS THIS SO TRUE AAAAAAH
Wing was also the first Gundam I ever saw. I remember racing home to catch it on the Toonami block. I haven’t had the opportunity to watch it since then but hopefully I’ll manage that in the near future. And yes, Releena >>>>>>>> Marina without a doubt!
Man, those Toonami commercials were awesome! That brought back some memories..
It has to do with Releena’s menacing eyes, as apposed to Marina’s perpetually ‘someone ate my lunch’ look in her eyes; well, at least for me.
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Much like several of the above posters, Wing was my gateway Gundam – with the English dub no less, and a very strong dub performance at that – Peter McCullen didn’t just narrate the Toonami previews, he was the narrator for the entire series, and certain other english character voices certainly have stuck – Treize Kushrenada’s voice, for one.
Then again, it might be argued that the reason the English dub sounds so well is because the original Japanese acting is so lackluster… in fact going back and watching Wing in the original Japanese is downright uncanny because of associations from newer Gundams (Zechs, for example, is voiced by the same guy who did Mu La Flaga in Gundam SeeD).
The funny thing is that Turn A Gundam came right after Wing; it wasn’t really until SeeD and 00 that they began to apply the lessons learned in Wing. I think what’s particularly interesting about the series as a whole too is how all the series after Turn A have undergone a complete turnaround in visual style and aesthetic – 0083, Char’s Counterattack, Zeta, ZZ, Wing, and Turn A all had some sort of commonality in the way characters were drawn and coloured, whereas SeeD and 00 definitely fall into a new paradigm.
Yes, the change has to do I think with appealing to a broader fanbase.
For better or worse, Sunrise/Bandai has to expand the fanbase because old fans will hardly ever agree on anything. There will be always those who will stomp on the latest show and be loud and obnoxious about it.
Not all the changes will be good, or even work. However, SEED was a huge hit and became the gateway show for the current generation of fans. The aesthetics are such that they appeal to fujoshi. After all, with the slowing birth rate in Japan, women are the last frontier in terms of market demographics.
wing and 00 series are very similar, although i liked 00 better.. i just thought that u expected “too much” about the wing series (becoz its popular) that it kills your natural response, hehe.. im one of those who started the series after 5 eps, but still i enjoyed it.. i just cant get the its “philosophical views of war”, but i enjoyed the animation, and relena (althou, many people hate her.. hahah..) try to watch the whole series, like a marathon.. just for the sake of watching and not critizing how good or bad it is compared to the others.. dont bash me.. hehe..
I won’t bash you! I don’t bash strangers, only ‘friendlies’ wwwww.
I did watch the 4 eps like a marathon, and I figured that there would be better things to do with my life than watch these kids hate their life and kill people while feeling sorry for themselves.
Wing is way too boring for 50 episodes. i remembered i felled asleep around ep 10 and stop watching after that. but at the end i go for the manga instead (which is much faster pace) and watch the endless waltz.
Although both wing and oo are consider “fan service” for girl type of anime, Gundam OO is much better where there are more strategy involve rather than “get ur gundam n shoot a mega canon to wipe out all the weaklings”. overall OO is great if they can reduce the “guy x guy love & naked scenes”. saji x setsuna freak me out.
For alternative universe i would pick SEED as my fav (i love strike, but not freedom). for UC, it would be Gundam 08th MS team, i give high hope on gundam unicorn :>
I can see where your biases are, though there’s no harm in that really. It’s the mega-cannon stuff that puts me off too, since variability of damage is just too variable in the service of plot whims. I’m clearly more of missiles and bullets kind of person.
GHOSTY, WE NEED TO MAKE A MECHA SERIES WITH BADASS BISHIES.
You know it in your heart that Bishie Kamina and Bishie Simon and Bishie Gurren Lagann (Not that they aren’t FABULOUS enough :P) must team up with Bishie Bobby and Bishie Ozma in the Bishie Macross Quarter while fighting against Bishie Master Asia in the Bishie Devil Gundam as-
You get what I mean.
Also I am an alternative UC fag. 08th MS Team and all the sidestories. Personally I think the sidestories are way better than the original.
Well, the side stories are great because of the Tomino Gundam shows. They get to say great things in a far fewer episodes because:
1. There’s no need to establish the setting, the war, and the zeitgeist.
2. It’s amazing to imagine these things going on while Char and Amuro and Ramba Ral and the Zabis fight it out in the OYW.
2.1 The OYW main narratives make the side stories more meaningful.
2.2 We have characters to measure the cast of the side stories against (Gato against Char, Shiro and Kou against Amuro and Kamille)
The sidestories do lack awesome female characters. Now, I really like Christina McKenzie, and I ❤ Aina Sahalin (forever), but the main narratives have Katejina Loos and Haman Karn. The side story female characters would be more like the Saylas and Sarahs and Mouars and Reccoas and Fours and Beltorchikas.
Lastly, being side stories they ultimately lack the epic sweep of the TV series. This too makes Gundam what it is and makes the side stories possible.
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I enjoyed Seed, it was Seed Destiny that let me down…
Marina (to quote my dear departed Scottish Grandfather) is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
I’ve actually checked out SEED‘s first episode, and while I will never like the character design, I found it quite interesting and enjoyable. No great need to finish it though, as I’m neck deep in other Gundam shows ^_^
I love Seed for La Flaga and Murrue. Thank god for the grown ups!
Hubby liked it for Lacus and has his army of Laci to prove it.
Army of Laci sounds terrifying. I do have a mob of Minmays myself…
Well,i don’t know where you heard that Gundam Seed was hated by Gundam fans.Do you realize how popular it was in Japan!?!
Your initial assumption is correct. Do not let anyone inform you otherwise. Gundam Wing is bad on MANY levels. The first of which you noted in that slideshow. The hero, named Heero, is an asshole. He has a serious personality disorder, verging on.. no wait, he is a psychopath. And so are all the other gundam pilots. none of them are even remotely likable.
Throughout the course of the series I found my self rooting for the “villains”, Zechs and Trieze, because actually, they are the good guys. Evidently displayed by their honourable behaviour. Look at the opening scene for instance. Deranged Heero instakills those 2 mobile suits with his INVINCIBLE gundam, and Zechs takes him on in his weaker mobile suit, doing his utmost, even sacrificing his suit when he realizes how outclassed he is. The scene ends with that fool Heero laughing like a maniac.
Apparently among the fans (fan-girls and wierdos) there is a hatred for Releena. They all agree that Heero should kill her. So they think his behaviour is justified. I never really understood the hatred myself, it just made me think “WTF”. (funnily enough there is another scene, where Duo saves Heero. Heero’s respone: “I’ll KILL YOU!” You see the pattern?).
I think UC fans also hate on it, because in UC, there is more of a military thing going on. The gundams are superior units, but they are not invincible power ranger gundams killing everything.
Its been a few years since I forced myself to watch this pile of crap, but you can see it left its mark. You have been warned.
Thanks man! I filed it under “I will see this when I’ve run out of Gundam shows to watch,” and I think it will be long before the day I need to start watching it again will come.
Wow. The hatred. I haven’t watched much of 00 or any SEED, but I don’t like them – particularly the animation style. Sort of makes the mecha designs less appealing – as if they are summoned from Yu-Gi-Oh cards.
But Wing is actually very good. It’s all about characters. No faction in all of Wing exists that does not have a strong character behind it. The shifting alliances and weird political changes are really captivating stories about characters. The characters in turn are representative of worldviews.
The basic story is there: space vs. earth, independence for the colonies, and how to achieve peace.
This time, the story is told through representative characters. There are no newtypes this time – just characters who represent varying levels of ‘will power’ and commitment to ideologies.
The evolution of the characters is very nuanced as well. Heero, for example, remains a psychopathic, sort of trained killer the whole time. But this is what gives him the will power to operate zero. What’s interesting is how he grows over time, and how this affects his sense of his ‘mission’.
Yes! Treize and Zechs are ‘good guys’! That they start as bad guys is a good example of the nuance of the show. The question is what does it take to achieve peace between Earth and the Colonies. The answer is explored through very rigid characters whose evolution is nuanced. It’s a very individualistic show – there aren’t factions so much as there are leaders. Relena is annoying, but she is the leader, the one that we would follow explicitly. The Gundam pilots are in the shadows, and their isolation is what gives them the right to fight for peace – almost like the Dark Knight.
The first few episodes drag on a little, but what makes them so much better than, say X, or especially 00, for example, is the tension and mystery and momentum of the backstory. Operation M. What is it? Who’s ordering the pilots around? What is their mission? How did these kids get to be this way. And the second you learn a bit about what’s going on – everything is turned upside down, except now you have strong anchors like Treize, Heero, etc. to work it out. The gayness aside, each gundam pilot has a unique personality that guide actions of the gundams against everyone else. The gundam engineers in the background, with their deep understanding, foresight, and mystery are great too.
All in all, I have to say it is a great series. I don’t mean to troll, but I do want to defend something I like. It’s good because it stands alone. One series, one movie, a couple mangas – it doesn’t need more than that.
And the Tallgeese – all three – Epyon, etc. all really cool. By the way, there are no ‘real’ feathers on Wing Zero cust. The movie shows feathers as an artistic touch for one single shot (which was very cool), but the mecha has no feathers. It makes you ask -what sort of angel is Heero? What makes him a savior? It’s not obvious.
I am happy that you enjoy something in such an intense and reflected-upon fashion. I don’t love W Gundam, but I don’t hate it. I don’t care enough about it to hate it.
My hate is reserved for the likes of ZZ Gundam.
I fired up some old episodes (just watched 0083! btw), and realized that yes, W’s characters are completely stale. Utterly so.
As a one season, one-time shot, W is still good and I stand by what I said. It’s a different way of expressing some of the same themes. Maybe more formal less fun.
I just like it better than X or Turn A, and definitely more than G or SEED. I think more than 00. This is from a general attachment to Gundam for ‘realness’. Ironic, that and W. I think W was produced poorly as well, lazy recycled animation, nonsensical dialogue, etc. It was implicit from the beginning, but never really demonstrated, how even the lowliest mobile suit was incredibly powerful. I guess any Gundam fan would be aware of that. The Gundam as deus ex machina, with the pilots themselves filling that role (as opposed to saviour), was the point. No newtype theology: just people and tech that happen to luckily be just that much more incredibly powerful than the situation required. W is all about how, when the alliances and teams and ‘tribes’ shift around, what should we root for? The Gundam pilots pretty much only have incredible strength on their side, not ideology, so what do they choose and why? This is why you have people going all out nuts on zero system killing everything that’s a soldier or weapon. In the end, the idealists who see war as the last resort die according to the sword by which they live. Those that promote peace – Relena – win. The factor that decides this are the gundam pilots – who really aren’t all that human – but are like machines themselves. The power of the Gundams is such that it falls in favor with those who ‘deserve’ to win, pure and simple. That’s the conclusion: behind power, are people, and the pilots are nothing more than reflections of their spirit (the spirit that desires peace not ideology). Not my favorite philosophy, but coherent and nuanced. Again, one season, an interesting take on the themes not much more. But much more sophisticated theme and tone wise than other alt-universe showings. Character likeability and emotional involvement? Lacking big time, probably more than any other series – that I concede.
One thing from the slideshow, a bit of nuance proved – Heero often engaged in token gestures to ostensibly fulfill his mission, which was after all all he knew how to do. However, his humanity would occasionally override that iron commitment. He didn’t care if his cover was blown, so much as he felt obliged to make a token effort to preserve it. Hence Dorothy from the school asking why his name was the exact same as the former leader of space – registering under the Heero Yuy name was pretty bold if you ask me. So what’s the point then? On the outside, Heero was committed to his mission, generally relying on whomever was ordering him – mind you that despite fighting to avenge space in operation m against oz, his mentor/father was a hired hitman whom oz paid to kill the original Heero Yuy. On the inside, he sought out some sort of grand mission, one whose fulfillment he knew he was working towards. This explains his ‘relationship’ to Relena. He sensed some sort of strength in her, so his ‘inner’ compass basically kept him from killing her even when he fired a gun at her and ‘missed’. He recognized that she’d be important to his grand mission. I’ve been over the significance of this, just pointing out some of the theme – which might be helpful for some who can’t see past the non-relationship she has with Heero.
But alas, you have proven your neutrality and fairness, and I shall no longer flood this thread with repetitive analysis.
That was pretty good, in that you really dug deep to explain what you read from W. You make it sound quite interesting too, and this will go far when I consider what Gundam show to watch when those I would normally be attracted to are all done.
I’d only ever watched Endless Waltz before this, so since its all up on crunchyroll I attempted to watch this. I’m at episode 5 (its taken me about 4 months to get that far in!) and all I’ve really taken from it so far is.
OMG there is someone out there, more emo, angsty and asshatty than Sasuke Uchiha!
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Gundam wing is my first gundam series, it introduced me to the vast world of mobile units called gundams. So I thought that it is great, the fact that my 10 yr old mind during that time find it really amusing. Then I watched G( which I founded as a crap) and X. While I had my angst against seed, but captured my heart on later episodes. But when I tried UC men….. It made me think that am I watching crap all this time? Guess I founded the light. But maybe wing can change my opinion by rewatching it and guess what? I’m so goddamn wrong.. Men, I can’t believe I idolized this shallow piece of shit… And yeah, the rumors of invinsible gundams against tin cans is true( ehem… Leo… Ehem aries……) still, wing is still good for me(10 yrs ago maybe???)
Welcome to sanity.
UCs basically the “Mobile Suit” era are kickass and seriously military-oriented
No love stories etc (as far as i am concerned) unlike the new releases which try to appease the women.
When Wing became a hit and girls learned to love Gundam because of it, then pooff!!!
All the things you love about UCs are gone, even Unicorn contained “gayness” and what’s with “meister”???
Regards to Wing – same here it was the first Gundam I have watched and I honestly enjoyed it as a kid and I think that is because of the kickass op song and the animation was already top of the line (at that time). I got back to it now and I have noticed the same flaws off course. But at least it is still bearable.
The politics and stuff are great however and I still dig the Heavy Arms.
DAMN must cost a billion to fire a 12second round from heavy arms huh
But I love Gatlings, its hypnotizing
Total agree with that haha XD
Recently read some bashing againsnt wing un the net there are several reasons I’ve realized why it sucked (though I still kinda disagree on some points)
1. Bi shonen( good looking male main characters) vs the ugly OZ and white fang evil guys ( exception of treize and zechs)
2. SUPAAAAAH powered gundams or should I say tin can oponents or a whole buch of army as a cannon fodder.
3. WEAPONS( ok, we had a gundam using s sytche, some curved like blade and an extendable arm????who’s going on an all out war with those lame toys????) bet that if they were pinned in some federation and zeon aces they will be nothing but a pile of trash in a nick of time.
4. No aces just zechs and treize
5. Wufei sucks when he talked about honor but slaughtered a whole camp while on sleep.. Disgusting
6. Zechs from the clothes, the story of the lost sister and the mask….. CHAR IS THAT YOU?????!!!!!!
7. Zero system is a blatant rip-off of a bio sensor from Gundam f91
8. Yeah… Zero custom is the gayest design I had ever seen… Gundams are supposed to have a realistic design of why they put this and those yeah…. For more effecient performance…. Yeah I already know that the wings are for better mobility and propulsion but the feathers ick…….
9. and most of all the fans well not all of them… But those who claim that wing is the best…… And the rest sucks……
1. LOL it’s not good vs. evil but good-looking vs. ugly.
2. Yes, this sucks.
3. Not necessarily a bad thing, as the Gundam Hammer from 0079 is still awesome. But yes Deathscythe and Sandrock are overboard.
5. Wufei sucks.
6. They stuffed Char’s entire story in 50 eps.
7. I don’t like the term ripoff in Gundam, because they’re always working with elements from older shows.
8. Gay isn’t bad. Wing Zero custom is.
9. Wing die-hards are dumbasses.
Huh?? I thought that wing is some shallow piece of shit…. Gundam engineers…. NAH…. Ok, we had this gundams and suits and weapons
1. Deathsycthe – well you know a scycthe
2. Altron or dragon or what evah…….. – has some flame spitting shit, extendable arm and a spear…
3. Heavy arms- well u know about it…. Loads of ammunation
4. Sandrock- well, all I can remeber is that some kind of curve like blade not sure…….
5. Tallguese – practically a leo with a booster yup!!! A booster!!! And a bazzoka
6. Leo – the ancestor of plants vs zombies being a pea shooter
now, seriously thinking, I don’t think that nos. 1, 2 and 4 are practically designed for an all out combat… (who the hell in history would face enemies carrying a big sycthe anyway?) though fans defend it by saying that hey DS is designed for stealth missions.. BITCH PLEASE….. The next thing you knew DS is sneaking in an enemy wall XD ok youre stealth but what’s with the sycthe? Any other formal weapons there? As seen in the series… Ofcourse there is still times that you need to face an enemy head on. DS is a close quarter MS anyway. Sandrock is the most pathetic…. Disarm both their arms and you got an instant punching bag haha XD. You see in real gundam war you carry guns, beam saber, heat rods, bazooka, fin funnels. Who would choose to fight on close quarters when you can utilyze those? I don’t get it……. Maybe for franchise… Coz fans claim that it is way cooler that way with those designs. The thing is when you teleported all the suits on the list to any CE, AU(preferably 00) and UC it’s clear that they will get their asses kicked.
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I also think Gundam oo is bad, gay and tries too much to fanservice the female viewers-
which I admit is indeed strategic on their end.
If you have noticed the Gundams written during and before the Wing all just focussed on the war
I used to like Wing. I then moved to Seed and 00. My friend said all of those are childish. I didn’t understand. Then I started over with 0079 and so forth with the UC timeline. Holy Cow! Despite the 80s Gundam being old school, it’s seriously more kick ass. Yes it is more military and less lovey-dovey but… wow, 0079 blows Seed out of the water. Same thing with Zeta to Destiny. If you like plot over bishounen and fancy robots who like to blow up everything recklessly, watch the UC series. Trust me, I’m a chick and as cute as Seed and 00 characters (even Wing’s), it made me totally Zzzzz.
gundam wing manga is way better than the anime
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