The Top 3 ASDFGHJK Moments of Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye

[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.42.53_[2011.10.30_18.26.37]

We (the founders of We Remember Love) watched the culmination of the Macross Frontier saga together and in grand fashion: using an office board room and a high-end projector. It is only fitting, as the Macross Frontier sub-franchise is, and had always been the representative anime for this blog. Yes, our favorite show is Super Dimension Fortress Macross, but is Macross Frontier that remembers love, and is the show that in 2008, got us following anime blogs and finally start one ourselves.

This post will be the first I’ll make on this film, and relatedly, Macross Frontier as a sub-franchise and Macross as a franchise as a whole. I’m not hung up on destiny, but I find it entertaining to imagine how the destiny of Macross Frontier is intertwined with that of We Remember Love. The first post here is to get the obvious out of the way: We loved this film and here are the moments that blew us away:

[SPOILERS, OBVIOUSLY]

3. Remembering Love For Gundam (and Eureka SeveN) “Big Wednesday

When the Macross Quarter made its desperate run into the atmosphere of the Vajra home world, it had to deal with the danger of atmospheric entry which has not been a significant obstacle in a Macross narrative since Macross Plus and even then the hazard involved more of the static satellite defenses Isamu had to fly through. This however, was a big deal in Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, and in Mobile Suit Gundam Char’s Counterattack.

In Z the AEUG invasion force headed for Jaburo from space was attacked by the Titans during atmospheric entry. The mobile suits had to use ballutes, devices to reduce atmospheric friction to survive. Macross Frontier referenced not only this, but the Axis asteroid falling to earth in Char’s Counterattack when the Macross Quarter used the asteroid in orbit as a ballute, Z Gundam style both as a shield against atmospheric friction but also against enemy fire.

[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.26.32_[2011.10.30_15.41.05]

BUT IT DOESN’T STOP THERE.

In Gundam, mobile suits are generally unable to fly within the Earth’s Atmosphere. In Z Gundam this was mitigated by the use of what amounted to as rocket-propelled flying surfboards. This was not cool. It looked rather dumb. 2 decades later Eureka SeveN did away with the rocket propulsion and used some in-universe energy source for robots to surf the skies as if they were surfing waves in the ocean. THE MACROSS QUARTER DID EXACTLY THIS USING WHAT’S LEFT OF THE ASTROID AFTER RE-ENTRY.

[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.26.52_[2011.10.30_15.42.32][Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.26.55_[2011.10.30_15.42.42]

NOT QUITE DONE YET.

For good measure, after taking damage even in the cockpit, Capt. Jeffrey Wilder earned his place in GARHALLA by whipping out the “emergency controls” of the Macross Quarter which constituted of a naval vessel’s helm straight out of Mobile Suit Gundam’s The White Base. CAPS-INDUCING AWESOMENESS.

[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.35.07_[2011.10.30_15.52.42]

2. Inverting Space War I: The NUNS are the Invasion Forces firing down on an Earth-like Planet

So Many Macross Class ships all at once, firing the final shot. This inverts the Zentraedi Bodolle Zer extermination/genocidal attack on Miclones in the first Space War. This time it’s the humans doing the firing which is some delicious irony. But this is already the bonus, the real substance of this moment for me is seeing all these Macross ships. It’s an invasionary fleet made of Macross-Class ships (even if they’re the quarter-sized variety).

[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.35.55_[2011.10.30_15.55.43]Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye SMS NUNS Macross Class Fleet[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.45.29_[2011.10.30_18.34.25]

I didn’t even think of ever wanting to see anything like this in my lifetime. BUT HERE IT IS. Sure, Macross II Lovers Again had a fleet of Macross Cannons but that’s kind of LOL. This is different, this is unilaterally awesome. This is like an large idol group made of Minmays, Rankas, Mylenes, & Sheryls.

Speaking of which:

1. LOVELY BOMBER

Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye Ranka Alto Lovely Bomber

I know Kawamori is retarded for San Francisco, and Frontier City is basically parts of Tokyo, parts of San Francisco, and a tropical beach recreational district a la Singapore’s Sentosa. But Alcatraz? LOL. How many years has the Frontier fleet been in exploration to require such a facility. And how many years has the facility been in operation to be this run-down? Never mind, Macross Frontier never let logic get in the way in presenting a spectacle and it’s not about to start now.

Ranka wasn’t a big star yet, and thus she required a gimmick. Thus, taking the thematic cue from episode 12 of the TV series the film proceeded to reference Macross 7’s Fire Bomber in all its tacky, cheesy, rock ‘n roll glory. Why would people want to go to a concert of an unknown band held guerilla style in a still active prison is beyond me, OH WAIT, THEY’RE ALL INMATES… but yeah that attitude towards logic thing sure is handy! It was awesome, there was a battle too, and oh my god the Fire Bomber costumes of Michel & Klan!

Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye Michel Blanc as BasaraMacross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye Klan Klan as Mylene

BONUS: ISAMU

Yes, that’s an antique YF-19 folding out to invade an Earth-like planet once again, piloted by no one else but my main man Isamu Alva Dyson. His name and the seiyuu is in the credits (I’d recognize that “YUHOOO” anywhere). Yeah, it’s really him. In Macross 7 (and Dynamite 7) we still see a fair number of Space War I relics in operation, so it isn’t too much of a stretch to see a well-maintained perfection in Variable Fighter design make an appearance.

[Commie] Macross Frontier the Movie ~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ [BD 1080p AAC] [66AE8F11].mkv_snapshot_01.35.58_[2011.10.30_16.34.45]

Isamu really came out of nowhere, the last cameo I’d expect really, but it makes sense in how Alto’s last ride was in a YF-29, the swept-forward wings of goodbye.

The Ongoing Post Series:

  1. The Top 3 ASDFGHSDFG Moments in Sayonara no Tsubasa [you are reading this]
  2. A Tale of Two Movie Adaptations: TTGL vs. MF
  3. The Resolution of the Triangle
  4. The Rehabilitation of Characters: Ranka, BreraAlto, Grace
  5. Going Beyond the Impossible: The Reconstruction of a Canon
  6. Sheryl Nome: The Most Awesome Woman in Anime

I mentioned these so I can have some order in the conversations to come. For now, let’s talk about our most favorite moments from the film.

About ghostlightning

I entered the anime blogging sphere as a lurker around Spring 2008. We Remember Love is my first anime blog. Click here if this is your first time to visit WRL.
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209 Responses to The Top 3 ASDFGHJK Moments of Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye

  1. Xard says:

    GLAD YOU SEE YOU LOVED IT AS MUCH AS I DID

    SAYONARA FTW

    THE AWESOMENESS

    (now you can read my review on MAL without fearing spoilers!!!! 🙂 )

    however

    >Ranka wasn’t a big star yet, and thus she required a gimmick.

    Ranka’s really BIG star by the time Sayonara starts 3 months after Utahime. You can see this by the scale of her live scene alone: only megastar can do that. She gets called superdimensional cinderella etc. here too and without reason.

    Just a little nitpick, that’s all. Ranka’s Seikan Hikou and GOTH LOLI ALTO OH GOD rescuing Sheryl well damnit the whole Alcatraz sequence is probably my favourite bit in the film. This film has best concert scenes out of all anime anyway and SK is my personal favourite simply for DAT ANIMATION. Ranka’s character animation in particular is the best from franchise’s history and combined with song so disarming I couldn’t help but nearly suffer heart attack every time I saw her on big screen there. Add Basara-Michail and rest being badass to the mix… oh god. MY BODY WAS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE READY FOR IT

    As for the Alcatraz/lolwtf why is Frontier SAN FRANSISCO IN SPACE it actually has really good and valid explanation for it:

    Interviewer – In the Macross world, are the traditional arts preserved?

    Kawamori – Since the first devastation of the Earth, there has been trauma concerned with that time, so there has been a movement to preserve Earth culture from the beginning year of the 21st century to the year 2009. Right after World War 2, after Europe had been severely bombed, it was rebuilt just like it originally was. It’s like they were trying to pass on it’s history and tradition.

    Interviewer – Then it was similar to having things like living national trasures and intangible cultural assets?

    Kawamori – It’s similar to having those things, but even then it’s not like everyone goes to see those things. When it comes to popularity, everyone is critical.

    So yes: the people in Macross world very intentionally build Frontier city like it was to, dare I say, remember love for the old Earth.

    • Xard says:

      *not without reason etc. inferrable fixes, that happens when I write too giddily and fast…

      Can’t believe I forgot to mention the main thing about the animation of Seikan Hikou scene: They *motion captured* Megumi Nakajima dancing and performing the song and used the results as a model for Ranka’s animation there. This is why it’s so astonishingly real and lifelike.

      BIG WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWEEEEEEE

    • Xard says:

      For my take on Sayonara in general and a review grounding the reasons why I think it’s a genuine masterpiece (gets just better with 2nd and 3rd viewing) in surprisingly concise (under 2000 words!) fashion:

      http://myanimelist.net/reviews.php?id=45843

      Hope you find that “helpful” 😛 😀

      That’s it for me in general. Of course I have a lot to say and gush about in more indepth and fanboyish fashion but that’s for tomorrow!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Preliminary list of my favourite scenes out of order:

      10. Grace’s coup gone horribly wrong set with frightening perfection to Diamond Crevasse

      9. Alto’s and Ranka’s discussion and the final, definitive Aimo sequence

      8. Sheryl’s revival (Northern Cross a capella and beginning of final Medley)

      7. Brother’s Battle Of Pure Manly Awesomeness and Thrill

      6. Opening sequence/Sheryl’s Kindan no Elixir live concert

      5. Ranka’s live concert in Atlantis Dome

      4. Alcatraz Live (esp. Seikan Hikou bit) and grand prison break sequence

      3. Ranka’s confession (*sob sob*)

      2. CLIMAX CLIMAX CLIMAX SONO TSUBASA WA VALKYRIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

      1. Epilogue and Credits Roll (this is actually my number one)

      • Xard says:

        I can’t believe I left out the Ranka/Sheryl discussion in prison after the former gets put behind the bars. My favourite relationship from Frontier and, well, any Macross title is the fascinating, multifaceted relationship between the two girls and this scene is the best scene dedicated to it out of them all.

      • I pretty much agree with your review. This is now my favorite anime film ever LOL.

        I do like a lot of things on your list, especially how the coup and counter coup and re-coup LOL. I’ll have more to say about Grace and Ranka in succeeding posts.

        The epilogue was really sweet, but I can’t favor it because of how awesome my favorite moments are LOL.

    • BIG? She can’t be THAT big if she had to be introduced that way during the concert — they had to name-drop Sheryl and how Ranka had her cameo moment in that concert.

      As for the scale, LOL. It was clearly a function of:

      1. LET’S MAKE SOMETHING ANALOGOUS TO EP 12 OF THE TV SERIES, WITH LESS ZENTRANS, BUT MAKE SURE WE ADD THE KAMUJIN LOOKALIKE, BUT MAKE HIM LIKE RANKA THIS TIME.

      2. THIS IS A CROWD OF CONVICTS! IT’S OK TO MAKE THEM A BUNCH OF LOLICONS AND PEDOPHILES BECAUSE THEY’RE ALREADY IN PRISON! ZENTRAEDI = CONVICTS… RACIST PIGS!

      3. WHO’S GOING TO CARE GIVEN THAT WE’VE MAGICALLY TURNED MICHEL INTO A GUITAR GOD WITH A GUITAR TRANQUILIZER RIFLE CUSTOM, THAT LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE BASARA’S — AND WE KNOW HOW BASARA LIKES TO SHOOT PEOPLE WITH HIS GUITAR! ALSO YEAH, CANARIA IS A DOCTOR, AND AN ARTILLERY BOMBER, AND A GODDESS OF THE DRUMS. WE ALL LEARNED TO PLAY RANKA’S DISCOGRAPHY AAAAND A SHERYL DUET OUT OF NOWHERE. WE HAD ALL THE TIME IN THE GALAXY BTW. NEVER MIND WHERE WE GOT THE COSTUMES, THEY’RE HOLOGRAMS ANYWAY.

      As for preserving the Earth ARIA/Neo-Venezia style, I dig it. I rewatched Itsuwari no Utahime with the wife last night and noticed the Sydney Opera House in the harbor LOL.

      • Xard says:

        I was referrring her huge Atlantic Dome concert, not the much smaller scale Alcatraz one. It’s the same location superstar of the scope of Sheryl held her concerts. You can fit tens of thousands of people there and going by what we see it’s been pretty much sold out. Hell, you need to be big act to even get to have a concert in such place!

        As for name-dropping Ranka in Utahime’s final concert the reason is pretty simple. According to Kawamori (and film) the role she played in driving back the Vajra and in the fight is equal “break” to her role as Mao Nome in tv series: something that launched her into stardom. Given that most inmates have been locked in there likely for much longer time they’re not necessarily all that up-to-date about the newest celebrities that have appeared during those 3 chaotic months of rebuilding etc. So yeah, in such context most inmates have probably heard of the girl who played such a big part in such decisive battle but it’s not like they’re under constant bombardment of mass media and the like. *laugh*.

        Besides, Kawamori and all the official material related pretty much calls her a new, popular star at the moment (and obviously she’s put many songs out already, including Seikan Hikou and by extension eg. Anata no Oto which was originally ment to be used in the ED, thus meaning it exists in film verse too). The film guide book refers to the first parts of the story after opening act as “Two Divas”, meaning both have now attained that status. If Ranka’s schedule has been as busy as it was implied she’s doing pretty well, probably travelling around the Frontier equivalent of music program biz.that defines scene of pop music in Japan *laugh*

        Of course she’s still fresh and not as established Sheryl was at the time but plenty famous and popular already. She most definetly wasn’t *unknown* in general.

        1. part of the film’s habit of redempting the unredeemable. I think this is thematic more than anything else and worth discussing on its own.
        2. HAH 😀
        3. Honest answer? In-universe it was probably all Ozma’s and Bobby’s doing with both of ’em being such big Fire Bomber fans 😛

        Obviously all the cast members are hardcore and talented amateur musicians, except for Luka who is only good for being the lights guy 😛

  2. Reid says:

    I must see this. I had no idea it was even “out” yet, but the search will commence post haste.

    I’m stoked as heck to see Isamu return! You’re right, there was NO WAY I saw that cameo coming. The Gundam/E7 references in the atmostpheric re-entry sequence seem like they’ll be awesome as well. I will definitely be back with more reactions once I’ve seen the movie. I loved the first Macross Frontier movie (especially the final concert/battle and…I’m ashamed [not even] to admit Sheryl’s performance of “Universal Bunny”), so my expectations are very high for this indeed!

      • Reid says:

        Holy crap that is a complicated mess. I’m probably the least computer-savvy person you’re likely to come across, though, so it might not be too bad for other people to figure out what the heck all that stuff means. I’ve never actually torrented a show before…so uh, is all that necessary just to get the most out of downloading anime? I’m less than a complete noob when it comes to all this, so anything you might say is completely justified 🙂 thanks for the help though.

        • Xard says:

          Just follow the steps as instructed and you’re fine 🙂

          Though if you want to stream if of course you don’t need to download it but then again, who’d want to stream it? You can find both torrent and DDL links from commiesubs home page 🙂

        • OT: Those Napoleonic encoders feel like they’re emulating the late Steve Jobs by foisting bleeding-edge coding advances on downloaders without first testing thoroughly on a wide range of PCs to determine any problems on compatibility. Hi10p therefore can only be run on the latest multi-core PCs, and everyone else will have to make do with converters or be forced to upgrade their hardware to Sandy Bridge specs.

          In a nutshell: I simply want to watch, but why the fuck they have to complicate things a lot more by pulling off this form of video nerdery?

    • Don’t expect THAT much from the cameo.

      Overall, this is now my favorite animated film ever. Suck it Miyazaki, Suck it Hosada, Suck it Kon, Suck it Tomino, Suck it Anno! LOLKAWAMORI BANZAIIIII!

  3. Crusader says:

    Looking forward to what you have to say. It’s an inversion of Space War I yes but that was what was happening in the series. I think if this is Macross in your Macross than it also kind of stinks of a NUNS cover up over how hey were caught flat-footed when the throw down went down.

    With this new surfing fad maybe Kawamori was in Hawaii and surfing around the islands. I was hoping Isamu would make a cameo with Myung just to know that both were still a-okay. I do miss Grace hating Kaifun so much that she sent Vajra after him.

    Part of me want to believe that the Lovely Bombers were simply re-enacting what happened between Basara and Mylene namely they got together and I GET CLOSURE!

    • Xard says:

      >I think if this is Macross in your Macross than it also kind of stinks of a NUNS cover up over how hey were caught flat-footed when the throw down went down.

      can’t we just bury this somewhat amusing fan theorizing already? Kawamori keeps changing the explanation for continuity all the time, these days he’s much more in “I don’t care if they’re all parallel universes” mode than in the old 90s interview where he brought up the tv-show-in-a-tv-show-universe aspect…not surprising asIIRC a lot of the interview had him having to deal with negative feedback for M7 so going “well you can think of it just a tv show within the universe” is probably also related to the context.

      Apart from some amusing comments all it gives is meaningless fanwank about “whitewashing” real events and whatnot that only takes attention away from actually worthwhile analysis. (Though I’d love to think Basara was in reality some sort of death metal hardcore bastard who carried a giant warhammer with him anywhere he went and split protodeviln skulls with it and died of OD as 27 year old surrounded by beautiful women, tons of cocaine and alcohol. Fictional show about his life was just made PG-13 by producer insistence to reach as large market as possible!)

      • But this IS worth talking about. And instead of trying to suppress the discussion, I’ve put it in its place. See the list:

        1. The Top 5 ASDFGHSDFG Moments in Sayonara no Tsubasa [you are reading this]
        2. A Tale of Two Movie Adaptations: TTGL vs. MF
        3. The Resolution of the Triangle
        4. The Rehabilitation of Characters: Ranka, Brera, Grace
        5. Going Beyond the Impossible: The Reconstruction of a Canon
        6. Sheryl Nome: The Most Awesome Woman in Anime

        I should cover it in number 5. Post 2 will be up tomorrow. I’ve pretty much written the core of post 6, but I will save that for last.

        What Kawamori wants is whatever he can get away with. What fans want is just as interesting if not more so, especially since that group involves what I want myself.

        • Xard says:

          Meh. I got sick of it in Crusader’s otherwise excellent post(s) on Utahime on THAT anime blog long ago. The routine doesn’t sound very inspiring to me because it treats the TV series as the “real” history and films and fictionalization of it, which is complete nonsense because even if one follows the meta-show logic and interpretation of franchise the real history is always beyond reach. Both TV and film versions are equally valid or invalid. Secondldy there’s no reason to think such consideration has ever played a role in making of the films and thus it fails to say anything worthwhile on what is present in work itself. It also has zero meaning as far as discussion of the actual, distinct film narrative goes because it’s nonetheless self-contained. Thirdly I’m not really looking forward to LOLOLOL PRODUCER BRERA WHITEWASHES THE EVIL MURDERER RANKA, FEELS PITY FOR GRACE AND REDEEMS HER AND SINCE HE HATES MISHIMA’S GUTS HE MADE HIM EVEN BIGGER DICKHEAD WITH WORSE FATE. ALSO BY CATHY’S REQUEST HER AFFAIR WITH THE JERKASS WAS DELETED LOLOLOL

          It’s fanwank for sake of fanwank and only relevant to fanwank discussion of what exactly has been whitewashed. So go ahead I guess, but it’s not something I can get excited about. On the contrary.

          Also:

          >4. The Rehabilitation of Characters: Ranka, Brera, Grace

          how on earth this list doesn’t include Alto is beyond me as his personality is most different in comparison to his series self out of the main trio. I think Alto got biggest personality revisions (and very different, much more positive development as a bonus), Ranka character development revisions and Sheryl got by far the biggest backstory/settei (excl. personality) revisions in general. Brera, while slightly different, is more similar to his series self than Alto or Sheryl are to their own ones.

          • Alto needs no rehabilitation, Alto was awesome from episode 01. He’s a great nuanced character in the Macross franchise. Whatever changes made in this film resulted in a net par for him, unless we count actually choosing Sheryl, which makes him and everything else so much better.

            Crusader wrote the best Alto posts, yeah.

          • Xard says:

            Alto was well written, nuanced character indeed but not very likeable in general, looking at fan reactions at large scale. This actually extended to behind the scenes as if one reads the staff doujinshi collections and listen to audio commentary etc. it becomes clear that they truly loved the lead girls but Alto…. well:

            Kawamori hilariously and frankly said in ep 25’s commentary track that “Alto was lucky to make it alive to final ep”. Talk about dislike for main character!

            You have no idea how many comments in line of “Alto-kun kakkoii!” “holy shit they actually make Alto likeable HOW DO YOU DO THAT” in vein I’ve read about the films. Hell, Sayonara did that for me too: I won’t be calling ‘im hime anymore *brofist* (in pre-release interview Kawamori referred to this scene as “meaningful for long time fans”, hahaha)

            Oh, and Alto was most definetly “rehabilated” (or to be more to the point, his treatment is kinder). Unlike in tv series he doesn’t end up plummeting into hostile ideological waters against the very message of franchise blinded by his ethnocentrism and hate, he never turns into a tool for fascists and he’s simply less of a jerkhead and A LOT more introspective and consistent in his actions. Ozma gave Alto some terrific spot on slandering in ep 22 – this time around there’s no need for that as he’s not a guy so easily ruled by his fleeting passions and heat of the moment.

            Kawamori himself called series Alto more realistic portrayal of person who war affects and the film version of him more idealized and I guess in a sense “morally purer”. So yes, there’s a difference

          • Then I like Alto for the reasons the unwashed, maleducated mob dislikes him. Like Ranka, he mayhaps be rehabilitated in the film, but is less interesting for being so. This is no great tragedy, mind you.

          • Xard says:

            Brera’s “rehabiliation” is in equal measure eyebrow raising to me as is leaving Alto out. Film Brera is far more dangerous and “sins” more (even if he does that under mind control) than his series counterpart did to the point his only dramaturgically justifiable end was “redemption through death and sacrifice”. He’s kind of hardcore and genuinely threatening in the film, often.

            The big change is that he has his memory intact and he tells important information to Ranka but Brera was to similar degree a “good guy” in the series too. He was just more useless

      • Crusader says:

        Sorry dude it just felt like that to me, you can bury it if you so choose but don’t go demanding that the rest of us have to shut up for your sake. But hey maybe you are right and we should let you dictate all the discussion on someone else’s blog. So please just Tebow to yourself and dictate the discussion and free us from all thought and responsibility.

        • Xard says:

          Just a suggestion the energy might be better spent on discussing some other elements… discussion which most likely has far higher chance of saying something factual about the work than discussion that is fanwank and meta by definition. Of course I’m not denying the right to have such discussion but if GL is going to make only 5 posts about this in general sacrificing one of them for *that* feels like a waste to me.

          • Not every post is for you! And just because you don’t like something it shouldn’t be made. If we followed that logic Macross 7 and Frontier wouldn’t be made because there are people who clearly don’t like them and consider them wastes.

            Sacrifice… I sacrifice nothing. This is an important topic for me, and for some other fans. Kawamori can go fuck himself over this.

          • Crusader says:

            I don’t know you like using fighting words and then you give me this. Hey believe what you want and feel free to table the notion that real events can be slaughter in fiction to the point that perception beats out reality. Ghosty is going to do what Ghosty wants his blog his rules, so he gets to set the agenda. Besides I find the way I expend my energy to be fun and beneficial for me, sorry you think it a waste. Heck there are people who think you are wasting your energy by not improving the world and discussing poplar media of questionable cultural significance.

            As for things being factual you can stick with that, sifting for truths but I can’t read moon runes so you do it. Besides Kawamori is capable of being facetious and he is capable of telling half-truths. Interviews only give us insight in how he sees his projects in hindsight, it would be great if we get a VH1 Behind the Music type documentary but it’s not going to happen in our life times. It’s a work of bloody fiction I can interpret it one way you can interpret it another neither of us are Kawamori, I know I am not but if you happen to be can I get an autographed sketch?

          • Xard says:

            Guhh, I’m sorry if I sounded that jerkassy and self-centered to you guys. Didn’t mean to. Of course GL can do whatever hell he wants and I’m not saying the post won’t be interesting read. It’s just that when I said “feels like waste to me” I didn’t mean it’s waste for me specifically. I ment it in more general terms because I’m sure there are many things to discuss about the film not covered by those 5. I just think the approach is fundamentally flawed if one gives primacy for tv version (especially since film version of the story is in certain regards closer to Kawamori’s original intentions and hopes and he got to rectify some of his regrets with it).

            So yeah, I apologize. Posting tired clearly does no good for my temper control.

    • The inversion is indeed stretched out in the sub-franchise as a whole, but the image of the NUNS Macross Fleet was the ASDFGHJK moment.

      Surfing New Fad? Been around mecha since 80s Tomino LOL. Also, Kawamori was involved in the mecha design in Eureka SeveN (including the main robots).

      Don’t count on that kind of closure comrade, we were lucky enough that the triangle was resolved with finality here. At most you get an Isamu-like cameo in some future Macross show.

      They did Lovely Bomber here, so they wouldn’t add any more Basara. FWIW, Basara x Mylene is never going to happen, she’ll happily settle for Gamlin, then end up with some stupid NTR shit later on.

      • Xard says:

        Some CD booklet confirms that Basara never returned to M7 Fleet, thus ending the “triangle” by dissolving it. Gamlin would win by default in such context – provided that Mylene actually matures enough to make obvious choice.

      • Crusader says:

        Hey it might not be new but he might have picked it up Fall Season is surfing season in Hawaii. I would know I was there on government money. Hey I am a sports fan and bigger one than you with losing teams I have to believe that SOMEDAY will come. Besides SOMEDAY does come once in a while like when the Warriors best the Lake Show last season. I miss basketball.

        If only they added in a Gamlin to Lovely Bomber…

  4. Damn right, tons of Crowning Moments of Awesome I have not seen in years.

    Rather than doing copypasta, here’s my simple review of the entire movie: http://macross-f.livejournal.com/245918.html

    True, a lot has been crammed into nearly two hours, with more scene switches and an overload of information, causing some to nitpick and say that some details were missing or that they felt the plot was ill-contrived or (as one naysaying “old-timer” derisively said) it was the Macross equivalent of the notorious gonzo “Bang Bus” videos (to him I’d say “fuck you snobbish douche, you’re wearing your rose-tinted glasses!”).

    But the emotional underpinnings and excellent characterizations, I believe, kept the movie from falling apart; it put me on the edge of my seat; I cheered, laughed, pumped my fists, cursed Leon Mishima, and even had a moment when my eyes misted.

    Deserving of the accolades in its homeland, SnT is a sweeping epic in the true sense of that (seemingly overused) word, and of all the movies I watched this year, SnT packed as much thrills as the final Harry Potter movie or even Independence Day (the only Roland Emmerich movie I liked best)… and I was very satisfied with the open-ended conclusion.

    I have the feeling that with the 30th anniversary looming closer, Kawamori must be preparing something very grandiose for Macross fans, despite other non-Macross projects he’ll have to deal with (i.e. Aquarion, AKB48, etc) in the coming months.

    And I saw the tiny hint that answered a long-standing question: who is the one true love of Alto Saotome?

    This was one helluva journey, and with that concluded, I’m tempted to go pick up SDFM.

    Thank you Ranka, Sheryl, and Alto, as well as your friends; I salute you all.

  5. bluemist says:

    The most asdfghjk part for me is that prison break scene. Besides gothloli Alto and all the other mecha references I don’t care about, the way Sheryl snuck singing a line or two off the concert. I was like… SO BAD SO GOOD! THIS IS MACROSS!

  6. 123456798A says:

    SnT Movie overall 11/10

    Xard bunch of replies and whines. 0/10 GOD AWFUL!
    plz delete those or make it invisible at least

  7. Stormshrug says:

    No mention of Ozma’s indestructibility reaching the memetic levels that the internet usually grants it?

    Series: Stops an anti-ship attack with his VF, fights on, goes to concert, collapses, several episodes of bedrest.

    Movie: Takes TWO FULL CLIPS from Brera’s heavy machine-gun to the chest (and these weren’t all deflected by the armor, as he was retching up blood, which suggests that his lungs were penetrated), flies through an explosion and gets briefly spaced to save Cheryl, SURVIVES MASSIVE SHIP CRASHLANDING THAT DEVASTATES THE CITY, continues to fight against larger-form Vajra ON FOOT until he runs out of ammunition, GETS BACK IN A VALKYRIE AND STARTS KICKING ASS AGAIN WHEN ONE IS PROVIDED.

    I definitely enjoyed this movie, but as with the first Macross F film (in instances like Alto’s ridiculous acceleration from novice to ace who can fly his plane remotely perfectly enough to catch HIMSELF), I felt like the way things were sped up and blown over the top detracted from my ability to take any of it seriously. It was “awesome,” but the more measured, controlled story of the series proper was more satisfying. This is a fairly normal approach to making a movie that condenses a whole series (or half-series) into two-odd hours, and I think it worked better in this case than many others (the Escaflowne film, for instance, for all its gorgeous visuals, cut out practically all of the nuances of the human drama – and practically all of the giant robots – to its significant detriment). Still, when I look back at the series, I have to say that for all it lacked the craziness of the film, it told its story better.

    That said, given that we still have the series for a more measured approach, there is nothing “wrong” with having an awesome, over the top movie, too, and I spent much of the film laughing my ass off.

    • Xard says:

      >(and these weren’t all deflected by the armor, as he was retching up blood, which suggests that his lungs were penetrated)

      I think that was more the impact of bullets than direct hit. Such impact hurts like a bitch and does true damage too. That, and the guy is pretty much indestructible indeed 😀

      Alto’ piloting skills were just higher (he was huge natural talent in the series, it’s just that there other even bigger shots around like Brera and Ozma) to begin with so there’s only problem here if one treats Alto’s start “skill set” in films same as his in series. Which isn’t really the case.

      Anyway, I prefer the film’s storyline over the series…just like I prefer most-everything in films over the series. Not that the series wasn’t great too. As for film IMO the storyline was tighter, the political aspects etc. of the work richer and narrative less straightforward. The ending is also a lot more powerful and more honest to general “feel” of the work’s latter half and themes than series weirdly happy end that also leaves things unresolved which is pretty shit thing as far as dramaturgy is considered. The numerous twists, shocks and turns in the storyline also were more engaging and less predictable than many developments in the series… and the first film is narrativewise tighter than first cour to boot. To top it all of Sayonara in particular had greater emotional impact on me than the series did and the impact that had was big too. So all in all, for me the “over the topness” (which was huge iaspect n series too IMO) never distracted from the experience. Grace was also far superiorly treated and less a cutboard villain. Some story and thematic elements on which original series was obfuscatingly “subtle” with were also handled better. For example Alto’s issues with his identity and masculinity were more explicitly and better handled by films. In some respects what Vajra stand for was also more explicit, Vajra are more properly portrayed as not true aggressors, it’s more clear what they stand for symbolically and the whole lolzen and thematic underpinnings behind singing-from-stomach are given better hints at. So all in all I think storyline was improved too. Oh, and some less sensible bits were cut away (like Cathy’s attraction to Leon which Kawamori noted was “pretty weird” and he explained it by cutting it away from film. “See, it never happened” was what he said and laughed later :P)

      I do miss Bilrer though

      • Stormshrug says:

        I disagree on a number of points.

        Grace wasn’t a cardboard cutout in the series. She was an interesting character (set of characters?) with a believable goal and a pretty good plan to carry it out. She was not *sympathetic*, but not all villains need be sympathetic.

        Secondly, and I admit that I like subtlety, I did not find the series overly elusive in its conversations about Alto’s gender issues.

        These are quibbles, however, and too subjective to discuss too deeply with any hope of coming to a consensus. On a more overarching note, while you claim that the movie is “tighter” “narratively,” I would argue that the only “tightness” of the narrative comes from trying to squeeze ten pounds of sh*t into a five pound bag, as it were. While I have not tested this hypothesis, I would be shocked if I could sit one of my friends who had not seen the series down in front of the movies and have them come away with anything except “…what?” They might enjoy the spectacle, but I seriously doubt that they would really have much of a grip on the story. So much is glossed over or abandoned because, hey, most of the fans watched the series, right?

        On a final note, and I am honestly not just doing this to be contrary, I think that the exclusion of Birler was a really good decision. The movie did not have time for the addition of another diversion from the plot that, even in the series, is rather inscrutable unless you’ve seen earlier Macross works anyway.

        In the end, Xard, I doubt you and I are going to agree on much of anything regarding the subjective aesthetics of giant robot series. I suspect we hold irreconcilable artistic opinions regarding this sort of thing. I disliked Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann because it was “too silly,” and (although not to nearly the same extent) my complaints with the Macross Frontier movies stemmed from the same cause. The emotional impact of a scene, for me, is usually shot by something that flagrantly destroys my willing suspension of disbelief. This does not mean that I cannot enjoy watching shows that do this, but that “ha ha, oh wow” enjoyment of a spectacle will never earn a show a place in my long-term favorites unless it has significant other merits (or it is explicitly a comedy).

        • Xard says:

          “In the end, Xard, I doubt you and I are going to agree on much of anything regarding the subjective aesthetics of giant robot series. I suspect we hold irreconcilable artistic opinions regarding this sort of thing. I disliked Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann because it was “too silly,” and (although not to nearly the same extent) my complaints with the Macross Frontier movies stemmed from the same cause. The emotional impact of a scene, for me, is usually shot by something that flagrantly destroys my willing suspension of disbelief. This does not mean that I cannot enjoy watching shows that do this, but that “ha ha, oh wow” enjoyment of a spectacle will never earn a show a place in my long-term favorites ”

          I can understnad your feelings, even if I can’t share them. Certainly people tend to have their hot buttons and instant turn offs and the like. For pretty much exactly contrarian feel on the matter (to you) one guy liked Frontier films more partly precisely because they’re more habitually over the top and thus “better able to sell the more ridiculous aspects of the story”! As for me, I never had such problems with either version.

          So yeah, I do see why you think the way you do. My taste in films and anime is really wide these days as I’ve slowly worked through my personal kinks (for example mecha anime used to be a huge turnoff to me but nowadays “mecha” as genre tag is just another tag to me, not positive or negative in itself) which is kind of difficult because that makes recommending works to people sometimes difficult. For example I have friend who shares my love for bad films, zombie flicks etc. but has no interest in “serious” art films whereas I have friend who is just as much a artfag as I am…but who doesn’t enjoy such, uhh, plebeian stuff.

          So yeah, over the topness is entirely legit turn off in my eyes. I’m just happy that isn’t the case with me because I loved TTGL 🙂

    • No doubt I love the TV series and that has its place in my heart and in my favorites list, but I can’t fault this film for what it does either. I knew coming in that it has this cavalier attitude towards logic in the service of providing a spectacle and it has (as you noted) so many things I would fault a lesser series for.

      Beyond being an irredeemable Macrossfag, the reason why I don’t fault this film as much as say, Gundam W, is that the spectacle is truly spectacular in Macross Frontier, while that in Gundam W isn’t. It’s gaps in logic IS the spectacle, and it’s a shitty spectacle. I have less of a problem with Z Gundam despite it having the WORST of my hated things: HUGGING MOBILE SUITS IN SPAAAAACE, because what it was good at, it was legendary at (the finale arc most especially).

      Now I DON’T expect you or most people to approach (let alone appreciate) this film the way I do, that would be ridiculous; but here are some considerations, in the spirit of sharing.

      • Xard says:

        I’m still not seeing any gaping “logical caps” in either film that can’t be explained through the fabulous awesomeness (Sheryl’s perfect pitch control while running up the stairs! That just shows how badass she is and beyond any IRL singers :P) of characters. That would equal with incoherence in narrative or plot holes in story and there really isn’t any. It’s really well thought out piece and not really any more cavalier towards the logic or probability the series were on occasion. Closest one gets to “gap in logic” is SMS folks being badasses at playan’ some of that sweet sweet music but really, it’s not like it’s not *possible* that they have several levels in badass even with that. Presumably they chose the SMS members with relevant skills for the part. That they all happen to be significant secondary characters just shows they’re not secondary characters without reason instead of redshirts! 😀

        Only time there has been notable “gap in logic” in Macross film IMO is when in DYRL the folding of Zentraedi fleet throws HIkaru and Misa on Earth which goes against how folding is depcited elsewhere in franchise. But that too is acceptable if one sees it as a standolone work with possibly different rules to folding than other parts of the franchise. Or retroactively considers it effect of fold faults.

        • not even talking about plot holes, just not very good versimilitude that I’d murder other shows for, but not this one. There is a distinction.

          Stuff here would (as with most of my complaints with other mecha shows) just be “stuff that bugs me” — lazy presentation, or just outright not caring.

          In this case, they can’t be bothered with this shit because they were too busy being awesome elsewhere. It doesn’t mean it’s objectively okay, but I am not hung up over it (same attitude I take with Legend of the Galactic Heroes).

          • Xard says:

            Well, I still don’t see a ground for fuss making. Macross is space opera and as such follows the theatrics and pseudoscience involved. Hell screw theatrics, Sayonara no Tsubasa is mecha-musical of very operatic flair. I mean, rule of cool is the lifeblood of the franchise with itano circuses. Zentraedi make no fucking sense if thought “seriously” through lenses of hard SF

            etc. etc.

            The fabulousness a natural part of the whole package it’s “objectively okay” with me, whatever that means. It’s not “lazyness” (I can’t think anyone would seriously claim anything in film was *lazily* done) or disregard. MacrossF just belong to that larger than life vein of works in execution. I’d say same holds for most Macross titles. I can’t count “perfectly going along with life jam” and things like that any sort of genuine flaws or things “objectively wrong”. That’s like faulting Star Wars or any other such film for having noises in space.

          • Again, it’s worth making a fuss about because we are action and mecha fans and we care about these things!

            In a perfect world, this film would have perfect verisimilitude and deliver hard real robot fanservice. The way it is, despite the awesome dogfights, it’s on the fantasy/TTGL side of things. This isn’t a reason for me to dislike it, but it’s not what I want to begin with, especially from a real robot show.

            It takes too much effort to make everything work out that way, so they didn’t really work too hard on it, knowing that the other things will make for a spectacle so great that the real robot stuff won’t matter so much.

          • Xard says:

            aaaahh, okay now I understand. Yeah, from real robot perspective I can see where you’re coming from. I don’t in general treat Macross from that angle although it’s obviously valid

    • Dearline says:

      The fans loved Garass Ozma. He was voted best male character over Alto one of those Newtypes polls.

  8. Shinmaru says:

    The surfing was the greatest thing ever. What a badass captain.

  9. Damn I forgot this one: a pic that was almost close to Eva TV’s Episode 26:

    OMEDETOU! 😆

  10. Tenryu says:

    the surfing maybe awesome to see but it is also the moment where i thought ‘okay this is getting ridiculous’. Seriously is no one gonna comment how ‘wrong’ it felt?

    • We’re talking about a movie that (according to Kawamori’s claims) was made within the MacF universe, quite an answer to any Michael Bay production. 😆

      It’s really “over the top”, the movie isn’t afraid at pulling off some of the most ridiculous yet jaw-dropping moments, a huge step from the Rebel’s assault on Death Star or Dennis Hopper’s gonzo pilot character flying straight up to the alien’s death beam (and yelling “UP YOURS!”).

      If you’re looking for a naysayer, go Google for “bishopcruz”.

    • Seriously, it took you this LONG? This was the FIRST moment?

      It wasn’t when Alto dive-bombed Sheryl during her concert for no good reason? NONE!

      It wasn’t when during the first battle in Frontier city the Vajra soldier was bigger than a city block’s worth of buildings? BUILDINGS! (and resultingly, the VF-25 Armored, which is smaller than a VF-01 LOL)

      It wasn’t when Sheryl ran up the stairs in full sprint while singing looong notes with full power?

      It wasn’t when they would be able to sing in what effectively was a live jam session during a pitched battle and have the band automatically predict/adapt to the changes they made in the arrangement/song structure?

      AND THESE WERE IN THE FIRST FILM!

      If you let these things go then, why would you begin to feel wrong now? LOL

      • Tenryu says:

        i wouldn’t say it was the first but its the thing that stands out the most and the only thing i’ll probably remember about this movie… like how i only remember the Yoda fight scene in star wars episode 2

        • Xard says:

          Even if I were to see a film that was worst shit ever but it came with scene where Macross Quarter class bigass mecha/ship surfs down the atmosphere on fucking asteroid I’d be eternally thankful for seeing it. 😀

        • But what was “wrong” about Yoda’s duel with Dooku?

          We finally got to see how such a midget can be such a powerful Jedi (by basically being a b0rk3n NAMCO fighting game character, like a cross between Gon and Yoshimitsu from Tekken/Soul Calibur) LOL

          • Stormshrug says:

            I don’t subscribe to these theories myself, but I know that a lot of people were pissed off by Yoda’s action scenes because:

            1). They mean that he wasn’t a puppet any more, and CG characters in Star Wars are BADWRONG!

            2). (and slightly more legitimately) In the Original Trilogy, Yoda was cast as a mystic who was so in tune with the force that he was beyond needing physical violence to solve his problems. Now, personally, I think it’s reasonable that in 20-odd years of solitude on Dagoba dwelling on his failure to prevent the fall of the Jedi, he might achieve this enlightened status even if those years were a very small fraction of his 900+ year life, but I can see why people would be annoyed that this wise, nigh-ascended sage needed to run around throwing his light saber though Stormtrooper’s faces.

          • 1) LOLOLOLOL

            2) /facepalm this was a prequel, and I suppose the better alternative was to have Yoda do some Kaiyoh-Ken Spirit Bomb shit. No, I didn’t think that was cool either.

  11. Anya says:

    I don’t really care about number 1 because I didn’t go through most of the Macross franchise yet, but Surfing Captain Wilder and all those Macross Quarters is full of WIN. I especially like that scene where the transformed Quarters were descending to the ground, preparing to fire at the Vajra queen. Captain Wilder is the most epic badass character in all of Frontier.

  12. Taka says:

    Even I, a Macross Franchise novice, recognized the huge amounts of remembering love throughout this movie. Even the ones I shouldn’t be able to get like the Isamu cameo I knew was some kind of remembering love. Awesome movie, Kawamori is god, the devil, and jesus.

    P.S. Favorite sequence was Ranka’s first live. Followed closely by Lovely Bomber.

    • Richard Bilrer is not in this film. This is sad news.

      However, if we’re going to retcon things, let’s do it AWESOMELY shall we?

      Since Rich Bill no longer exists, Isamu Alva Dyson was kicked out of the military after the Macross City incident (Sharon Apple, etc.). He then marries Myung, who had a LOT of cash due to the success of Sharon by that time. With a combination of stock market speculation and high-stakes casino trips (remember LUCK IS ONE OF HIS SKILLS), Isamu Alva Dyson had the capital and founded the Strategic Military Services (SMS).

      He was there in Sayonara no Tsubasa as the unrepentant jock who is also the owner of the whole goddamn SMS army and all those Macross class small ships.

      • Ghost, you just made my day! 😀
        Isamu is my all-time fav character of all Macross series. I even used ‘Isamu’ as nickname since I have discovered Internet. And reading your comment that Isamu owns the SMS is MUCHO AWESOME for me, more than that, a loving fantasy. I believe Isamu did not get enough credit in MP series for his badassness or awesomeness. But your comment just takes him to his much-deserved level of greatness. Arigatou, soshite, arigatou! 😀

        • If you look closely at the YF-19, you’ll see the SMS logo on it.

          • What??!! Really!!?? O_O
            Fuck me, I really should have paused the second I noticed that YF-29 was Isamu’s! Gonna check it out the first thing I go home! 😀

            By the way, the ‘~Sayonara no Tsubasa~ netabare album the end of ‘triangle’ OST is great, great listening. Another Kanno hit! Absolutely recommended.

          • It’s the YF-19, not the 29 (that’s Alto’s). Yeah, I’m dling the OST and will listen to them probably every day for the next 2 years LOL.

          • I couldn’t reply to your last comment, so doing it here instead:
            “It’s the YF-19, not the 29 (that’s Alto’s). Yeah, I’m dling the OST and will listen to them probably every day for the next 2 years LOL.”

            Yeah, its a YF-19, too bad we don’t have an edit button. I noticed it just after I sent my comment, my bad. ^_^’ And I came home, checked the video and hell yea, it’s an SMS fighter. So you may be right Ghost. 😉

  13. Jack says:

    I honestly think they just retire the Macross franchise because whatever they push out next is not going to be able to live up to this awesome that these two Frontier movies were. I’ve already survived the huge letdown 7 was. I do not want to go through that again.

    Anyways.

    My top 3 moments in this half:

    1) Sheryl’s self-cesting.
    2) Alto’s rejection of Ranka, and the subsequent wailing of lolicons around the world.
    3) Grace being depicted as something more than a whacko on a power trip.

    • Only that Macross 7 was AWESOME.

      1. Sheryl yuri self-cest happened in Universal Bunny. Here we have one of those sex-change thingies when we have Sheryl as a male turning into a flower linking TENTACLES with a female Sheryl flower. I can’t believe I just wrote that sentence.

      2. LOLOLOL

      3. I never thought of Grace as just that. As if such a character can really exist as just that. I wouldn’t even call the shitfaces in SEED and GSD just whackos on power trips; and mind you those were horrible, wretched characters.

      • Jack says:

        Well, the lyrics do say, “Put your DNA in me”, which is pretty much the geekiest way of saying “Fuck me now!”. If my gf said that to me, I’d have to stifle a laugh. When Sheryl sang it, it was really hot. I think there’s something wrong with me.

      • Xard says:

        re: 1

        Needless to say I loved remembering love for one of magnum opuses of my favourite band. Though whenever I see the flower stuff in Kindan no Elixir scene I don’t get all grinning and fuzzy over Floyd reference, instead I’m freaked by it. Seriously, talk about creepy eroticism. Of course I love it

        • I wouldn’t have known. Great stuff. Thank you!

          • Xard says:

            Heh, it was specifically this bit I was alluding to in my review when I wrote: “[ ]aesthetically as astonishing as it’s bewildering in the way it freely mixes together gothic cathedrals and tribal paganism, alchemical formulations and nurse outfits, fanservice and disturbing eroticism that has more in common with Gerald Scarfe’s feveric visions than anything commonly seen in anime”

            Scarfe’s work on The Wall is classic for a reason. I’m not sure which I found more disturbing during first viewing, fucked up self-cesting Sheryls with flower heads or the original FF (Fucking Flowers). It’s all fantastic though!

          • megaroad1 says:

            OMG…You’re so on the money about the “The Wall” influence in the flower/concert scene…Haven’t seen the movie in ages so I couldn’t remember specifics (well Bob Geldof’s eyebrows or the lack of them rather). Rather appropiate really. If any band pioneered the use of technology in their live concerts and used it to maximum effect, it’s Pink Floyd.
            No Pink Floyd, no Sharon Apple.

    • Answering #2, here’s from /a/:

      • Xard says:

        Fuck you.

        again.

        • C’mon man, that was FUNNY

          • Xard says:

            No it isn’t funny at all given that I’m aware of where it came from and intentions behind it. Not only does it treat callously one of my favourite scenes from the film it taints the moment with genuine hatred and intention to hurt feelings of other fans.

            I saw the creation of thread where that picture originates from on /a/. Like a typical mean spirited 4chan thread it started with equal combination of genuine gloating and trolling with OP post by some assholey Sheryl fan taking piss on supposed butthurt of Ranka fans. Having seen enough MF threads in my time on /a/ I knew better than actually starting to read in too much detail as they always end in juvenile shipping wars. It was yet another one of those troll threads where trolls and emotionally involved fans of both sides trade insults and try to be as hurtful as possible. That pic is from said topic and not result of some playful, good natured joking

            It was made by one of those jolly “fans” who hate Ranka and who gets his kicks from hurting the “opposite” side. So in principle it’s just /a/ssholery at work that is all over the place on /a/ and as such it’s no big deal. People are meanspirited there in general, out of genuine contempt and out of trolling (both at play in that thread as usual). Usually I don’t mind it but if I see discussion of something I actually really care about on /a/ – excl. Eva because my skin with that is super thick after all these years – I avoid them like plague because I don’t enjoy watching people get savage over something dear to me in any way. Had things ended other way around I would’ve been just as hurt for Sheryl and similar contempt for scene.

            Given that this is second time the pic was thrown on my face in short while intentionally doing my best to avoid the topic it originated from my reaction shouldn’t be that surprising. Excuse me for not having much sense of humour in face of genuine meanness.

          • If you can’t laugh at this, stay away from post number 3 then because I post the image in all its glory~

            But that’s 4chan, this is WRL. You can’t just know where you stand on something, you also got to understand where you are, and the trasformative lens of the reader. The Authors are Dead. The readers killed them. This also means I am dead and you can choose to make that image mean as hurtful and and insulting as you don’t want it to be. I can’t stop you, the same way Kawamori can’t stop how I choose to read his works. It doesn’t mean the creators don’t matter, just that they matter a whole lot less than they’re traditionally given credit for.

            So, rightly or wrongly, I don’t give much by way of fucks to whomever /a/non that made it. I found it funny, on my terms.

            Yeah, you’re excused for not having a sense of humor, but meanness isn’t what goes on in WRL. You really should know better. And stop hanging out on /a/ if you don’t want what you like hated on. YOU REALLY SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Seriously. (No, I have never hung out on /a/).

          • Xard says:

            I’m quite the troll and thick skinned in general and I’ve been /a/ regular for years. I can and do see worse stuff written there on frequent basis and I’ve long since developed rather thick skin for trolling and meanness.You need to if you want to lurk /a/ remotely regularly. So really, seeing something I like hated on is not a problem in general. I don’t give a fuck usually.

            It’s just *that* particular scene happens to be one of my few soft, weak spots. For another example the last season’s loli troll threads about Usagi Drop (I can’t decide what was ratio of sick fucks to trolls in those LOLOLOL RIN IS HOT pieces of creepyness) were also something I preferred to ignore entirely. It saddens me that scene that I found so resonant and emotionally impactful for all three from Ranka’s heartbreak to Sheryl’s desperate, powerful love (the final AISHITEERUUU gives me goosebumbs) to Alto’s class and gained maturity can be viewed through such crude lenses.

            and excuse me for having a bit hard time telling how much sympathy next to gloating there’s going around when this whole thing started from “Alto’s rejection of Ranka, and the subsequent wailing of lolicons around the world.”

            but sure whatever

          • OVERCOME YOUR WEAKNESS then.

            Step back and look at all that’s been written here and seriously consider how much you can say is truthfully mean-spirited, attacking, towards you or Ranka.

            Now think how much change our minds about things do you really feel is so important?

        • Yo, Xardie… The pic wasn’t meant to knock on your love.

          To be honest, I really liked both women, I don’t care how they appear. What I enjoy most about them are their personalities. It’s just that all the obvious signs were there, even from the beginning of the TV series, and what’s going to happen between Ranka and Alto would be inevitable.

          *goes back to check the actual Commie script*
          Here:

          0,1:45:46.32: Ranka,
          0,1:45:49.96: I’m sorry I can’t return your feelings.
          0,1:45:54.69: But thank you.{FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU}

          I might have to ask symbv to see if he could clarify it, because some things can still get lost in translation… and considering that Commie’s scripter was visibly annoyed with Ranka (his raeg were all over the .ass file), those lines could be written in error.

          • *goes back to check the actual Commie script*
            Here:

            0,1:45:46.32: Ranka,
            0,1:45:49.96: I’m sorry I can’t return your feelings.
            0,1:45:54.69: But thank you.{FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU}

            I might have to ask symbv to see if he could clarify it, because some things can still get lost in translation… and considering that Commie’s scripter was visibly annoyed with Ranka (his raeg were all over the .ass file), those lines could be written in error.

            ROFLMAOOOOO

          • I could just feel her pain, it really damn hurts when I saw that expression on her face, leaving her no choice except to become an “imouto” to Sheryl.

            Hence the following scene when Ranka was now shouting Sheryl’s name as the latter collapses when the big-ass explosion marks the end of the battle.

          • Xard says:

            oh, the translation is accurate. The japanese there is simple. No questions asked.

  14. megaroad1 says:

    Awesome and fanfriggintastic…

    I expected based on spoilerfree reviews of the film and my fanboyism for all things Macross, that I’d like it, but never expected I would get this level of ‘service’ from Kawamori and co. Wow! I was drained when I finished. Granted it was in the wee hours of the morning since I spent about 3 hours battling with how to install the right program to get this 10bit and codec business working on my mac, but boy was it worth it. The animation in the concert and battle scenes blew my mind, the music was top notch and the story was fast paced. Did they take some liberties from a storytelling point of view? Maybe, but this is MACROSS not Citizen Kane.

    3 quick ones…
    For the record, Isamu’s appearance was the one of the biggest moments of win in recorded human history. Antique or no antique, Isamu in his YF-19 could probably take down half the Vajra himself. I was happy the didn’t actually animate him. In my mind, he’ll always be that early twenties reckless maniac and I wouldn’t have liked seeing him as middle aged, slightly chubby reckless maniac.

    Johnny Cash at Folsom or San Quentin Prison?? Please….Lovely Bomber featuring Ranka at Alcatraz. That’s the shit…. And no one but Kanaria could have filled Veffidas’ rather large shoes. And when gothAlto showed up as a stagedancer no less, the word speechless becomes insufficient to describe the state I was in.

    Alto is now somewhere in the cosmos having a beer with Shin and Hikaru. And Shin is asking Alto if his Nome is as hot as his Nome. Alto of course blushes.

    I’ll be reaaallllyyy looking forward to reading your posting extravaganza on this one.

    • The second to the last paragraph was damn good I chuckled. Nice one. 😆

    • Well, if I were to show a non-fan of anime an animated film, I would show something Ghibli, Kon, or even Hosada. I wouldn’t show Macross Frontier Sayonara no Tsubasa, and not even DYRL?

      These Macross films, or all mecha anime films, are fanservice, much the same way I wouldn’t show something like The Disappearance of Haruhi, nor the upcoming K-On!! film. But ask me which ones will probably delight me more on any given night? It’s the fanservice films.

      Why? It’s because I’m a fan! I’m a fan of anime (and especially robot anime, and most especially Macross) more than I am “an appreciator of good art,” LOL. I’ll leave it to the others to try to impress everyone with their discerning tastes. It’s not that I don’t have such, but I’m pretty sure I’m a fan of Macross first and an art/culture snob 9002nd.

      Like I said to Taka & Burak, Isamu plays the Rich Bill role here. His YF-19 has an SMS decal. The only reason I’ll entertain regarding this is that he owns the whole thing.

      Ranka and Lovely Bomber featuring Sheryl is the greatest gig ever, no Zentraedi had a better show. Sometimes, it just pays to be a Zentraedi convict.

      Alto came back, woke Sheryl with a kiss, and knocked her up many times over like Fabulous Max did Millya. Fuck Shin Kudo.

      • megaroad1 says:

        Well from what we’ve seen from SMS so far, Isamu certainly could have written the company’s mission statement.

      • Xard says:

        yeah, Sayonara isn’t really “entry level film” to be shown casually but it’s among my favourite anime films of all time too. Pretty high to boot!

        • megaroad1 says:

          It’s definitely one of mine too after just one viewing. I’m guessing that when the BD I ordered clears customs and I can see it in massive 52″ glory it”ll be even more so.

          • Xard says:

            It only gets best with rewatched… at least that was my experience in theatre 🙂

            third viewing was probably the most emotional to me in theatre. I don’t think anything will ever dislocate EoE from my number one spot but Sayonara is first Macross film that probably makes it to my top ten without questions

          • Xard says:

            *better

            derp

  15. Chan says:

    This movie, This movie… My body wasn’t ready…

    This movie really did rock and had a ton of moments which just remembering the love.
    My top three moments

    3. Niji-iro Kuma Kuma
    This scene was just so pretty, just the right amount of girly and Ranka didn’t seem like a Loli
    2. Escape from Alacatrez with Lovely Bomber-
    GOD MY OH! Luka was actually useful! So much awesome moments within. Sheryl being so dedicated to singing that she actually rights the lyrics of her next song with the blood she coughed up, the rescue mission itself, Ranka singing Seikon no Hikoku to the prisoners Alto dresses up in a gothic loli dress and saves Sheryl, up to Sheryl putting Ranka before herself and saving Ranka; finding out more about Sheryl’s past; and also Ranka being smart and not blindly trusting Brera.
    1. Nyan Nyan Final Attack/Sayonara no Tsubasa
    There are no words, the entire sequence of these two songs were just… like i said my body wasn’t ready.

    Fun fact Kawamori worked on Eureka 7,

    • 3. But Ranka did seem like a loli!

      I didn’t mind. I know what Ranka’s for in this franchise LOL. Magic girl accouterments are well within the tradition of lolicon hooks. Not-seeming-like a loli is a discernment that can only be made by someone inundated by lolicon material (i.e. anime fans), that Ranka’s concert is so “tame” in comparison.

      2. THIS WHOLE SEQUENCE I THINK CANNOT BE CONTAINED BY A SINGLE BLOG POST. ONE CAN DEVOTE A TUMBLR ABOUT THIS SEQUENCE ALONE. FUCK YEAH LOVELY ALCATRAZ OR SOME SHIT. I’D SUBSCRIBE LOLOLOL.

      1. Yeah, what a magnificent ending, so much win, I can’t really describe it myself. At least the Alcatraz scene I CAN USE CAPS, but this… caps are woefully inadequate and actually cheapen the experience.

      Yes, he made the mecha design of the Nirvash itself, which means he designed the Ref board LOL

      • Chan says:

        3. I should be more specific I meant that she doesn’t seem as loli as she was during the tv series, she actually seems like she’s 16. She really is taller she was in the tv series, and it also helps that she dresses her age now.

        2. IT WAS JUST AWESOME ‘NOUGH SAID

        3. Yeah there are no words to describe the greatness of this entire sequence.

        • 3. Yeah it does seem like she’s taller, but I’m sure this is some trick with the design as she shouldn’t be really taller.

          2. YEAH, CAPS.

          3. This is so awesome we went back to 3 again.

          • Chan says:

            3. I thought it was because she’s always wearing heels in the movies, but then I saw the promo pictures and yeah she’s almost as tall as Sheryl.

            2. YEAH

            1. IT WAS SO AWESOME IT MAKES YOU FORGET NUMERICAL ORDER!!!

      • Xard says:

        oh for fuck’s sake I’m so sick of the “Ranka = loli character” stick that has been beaten to death. It most certainly isn’t even true in the least for film version for reasons outlined in my lenghtier post below and it ignores the obvious that we HAVE a genuine loli character in the work already: Klan

        When Kawamori discussed the history of “rori kyara” for MacrossF in one 2008 interview I recently found in japanese there was no mention of Ranka. No, the loli character in initial plans was one of the bridge bunnies. Hiroyuki Yosino then suggested making Klan’s alternative form loli because it would be fun and, needless to say, Kawamori went with the great idea.

        Take the entire beach sequence from the film and compare Ranka’s and Klan’s bikini looks. It’s the difference between flat-chested 16 year old and a *real* loli character.

        Yeah, Ranka does have loliesque aspects in her design but contrast to Sheryl that exists within the work really blows the difference out of proportion. I mean, c’mon now:

        http://oreno.imouto.org/post/show/47014/macross-macross_frontier-marufuji_hirotaka-ranka_l
        http://oreno.imouto.org/post/show/179317/ebata_risa-macross-macross_frontier-ranka_lee-sher
        http://oreno.imouto.org/post/show/179254/dress-macross-macross_frontier-ranka_lee-saotome_a

        That is NOT how loli character looks like. AT ALL. You want a teenage loli character? Take any of Kugikyu’s stereotypical tsundere roles like Taiga or Shana.

        To boost up the artbook sales only thing they went and touched up was the boob size for the cover: http://oreno.imouto.org/post/show/174553/ai-kun-bikini-cleavage-macross-macross_frontier-me

        Beyond addition of Sherylesque monster tits there isn’t that much difference to her on-screen physique

        I’m sorry but I’m really sick and tired of getting slandered as a lolicon just because I prefer Ranka over Sheryl (preference that has nothing to do with looks in the first place, actually) and I’m equally sick and tired of seeing Ranka dismissed as “loli character” for very flimsy reasons, reasons that don’t even hold up well if one looks for the actual design art etc.

        Ranka is somewhat loliesque (more-so in tv series than in films) but not a loli proper. How people fail to see this when we have Klan as a genuine loli character in same work is beyond me.

        • Ranka is a loli type character.

          Sure it’s very otaku to split hairs about these things. Otaku are connoisseurs of budding youth sex objects (loli, shota, etc). Of course some of them would really disqualify Ranka. But then again, Minmay was loli back in the day; the Zentraedi spies were the Roricon trio, etc etc. What this tells me is that the appeal of the Ranka is for the lolicons. I’m not one, but I like Ranka anyway. I’m an outlier, and perhaps so are you I don’t know but whatever.

          To a non-otaku, Ranka is a teenage girl playing up the girliness to be more child-like. Sure she got an update on her wardrobe, but the definitive performances… the frontlining concerts: LOL LOL LOLI!

          Mahou Shojo Loli, check.
          Seikan Hikou baby doll dress, check.

          I’m not slandering you as a lolicon. I like Ranka just fine and I don’t get all butthurt by all the jokes. You sir, need to get a fucking grip.

          • Xard says:

            Welp, it’s a dark day when mahou shoujo concert styled more after Disneyland attractions than anything else can’t help but get labelled as loli fanservicefest. Really. Who is getting paranoid now? When film version was first announced it was said (I think it was Kawamori but I’m not entirely sure) they’d be anting up Sheryl’s sexyness and Ranka’s cuteness. I feared this would leave to kind of flanderilization of their characters but luckily the contrary happened. What is clear now that it’s all over they were thinking of concert scenes first and foremost. Eroticism of Sheryl’s concerts were upped to really high degrees while the whole Niji Iro Kuma Kuma scene is sunshine and lollipops of highest order. That the song and the scene are also very popular with young female demographic (and the tons of artwork they’ve churned out on pixiv inspired by scene *by far* surpasses whatever few sexual interpretations of whole “open Ranka” line exists) also makes me wonder why presume it was “lolicon pandering”. Oh right, because all things cutesy and Mahou Shoujo are automatically lolishit these days. *sigh*

            and what the heck is *loliconesque* about the Seikan Hikou outfit? It’s frilly and girly in vein of the 80s idol image Ranka projects in general.

            >I’m not slandering you as a lolicon.

            Wasn’t thinking of you. I’m speaking in general terms and in here I have hard time seeing much “joking” in what Jack wrote. I’ve seen enough of that “discourse” elsewhere.

          • Paranoid? C’mon man, seriously? I’m not the one who’s all butthurt.

            I just finished rewatching the film with my wife, who is an attorney and an advocate of children’s rights. I trust her judgment over these things more than I do otaku hair-splitting. Sure we liked the concert in Disney terms, once we can get past how Ranka is wearing a fricking garterbelt over her underwear LOL

            Would we dress up our daughter like that at ANY age, even if on stage? Probably not.

            Really, CHILL OUT. If you’re not a lolicon (like me) then there’s NOTHING to get hung up about. No matter how lolified a character is, the fact is you’re not a lolicon (if indeed you aren’t) so why worry? Instead of enjoying yourself here, you’re getting all aggravated. Remember love, not butthurt. As you’ve said you’re a veteran of all these flame wars. Don’t bring those memories here, as if such truly hateful comments really run around in WRL.

        • Chan says:

          Well the truth of the matter is that Ranka whether you like it or not is in fact a loli moe character. Okay 1. No one ever once said that Klan didn’t look like a loli in her macronized form;2 The difference was between Ranka and Klan . Ranka looked like a loli moe 24/7; While Klan was only like that half the time; and 3.Also Klan doesn’t behave as though she’s a loli. So yeah bad comparison. Ranka was made to appeal to the loli moe crowd, if you have a problem well too bad, you’ll have to get over it, because its the truth.

          It doesn’t make you a lolicon for liking her so you don’t need to be up in arms. Also there are quite a few teenage loli characters, remember loli just means that they’re underage,
          (which Ranka is) and you look it (which she does).

          • Xard says:

            >Well the truth of the matter is that Ranka whether you like it or not is in fact a loli moe character.

            Sure, just like Sheryl is fanservice character in the way her raison d’etre is to put as much tits and ass on screen as possible and Mikhail is yaoi bait best friend for fujoshi. It’s part of her character, just like other examples I listed are parts of Sheryl’s and Mikhail’s characters. “Loli” has many meanings and I do tend to call Ranka a loli character now and then too because it’s convenient… but because the use of word has evolved so much and has many connotations I usually make a distinguishment between “real” lolis (prepubescent) and “pseudo-lolis” (category that holds most examples including Ranka aka petite girls that are typically teenagers). Sometimes I define such characters as “loliesque” like I did here. Anyway, my issue here is that in context like this I tend to assume with loli people mean characters that look prepubescent (Taiga for example gets really really close to that) which quite simply isn’t the case with Ranka. It’s in this sense I object to labeling her loli because she doesn’t. In series she does look younger than her age but not *that much* younger and most of supplementary material and the films depict her in a way that fits her given age.

            You can tell this simply going through enough fanart on pixiv or booru. The ones of her drawn by people of more lolicon persuasion that actually exist generally infantilize her looks *way* beyond anything seen officially (they don’t need to do that with Klan). In distinct contrast to such fan art (that is bound to exist in general even for characters of non-loli persuasion) the more questionable official material of her and Sheryl – and oh boy Satelight whored the girls good over the years and nearly to level of what GAINAX has been doing with Eva gals for nearly two decades so there’s quite a bit of it – most definetly don’t go for “looking like prepubescent to get ’em off” angle. For example fanservicey decal art for VF kits is in style of what you’d expect from Sheryl art instead of Ranka: http://www.nattoli.net/art/7645/macross-frontier-visual-collection-ranka-lee-18 (OOCness goes without saying but what is important here is that when the producers try to milk otaku off their money with all the goods of idol pair and eros is used as the way to get the money “appeal” employed for idols is similar in terms of style)

            There’s no denying there’s great deal of sexual pandering in the character designs, hell Frontier didn’t embrace the modern bishoujo/shounen aesthetics and get Ebata Risa as character designer without reason (her previous anime projects have been fanservice heavy with one porny Gravion character looking like proto-Sheryl to me and, well, just look at SRW OG!), which I don’t mind at all but looking at the actual evidence that matters – official material – Ranka was hardly used as straightforward lolicon bait like that I’m-30-but-I-look-like-5 teacher in Index. For another example I’ve been going through the project of getting most Macross franchise CDs sooner or later, getting to Plus next, which ment that I eventually also got the Ranka/Sheryl “ero sticker” singles ( http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/12/23/macross-frontier-ero-cds-on-sale/ ) which didn’t exactly sell based on music. Funnily enough there’re 3 Ranka stickers to Sheryl’s 2 and they’re all stylistically very similar and Ebata’s handwork. Which is to say the ones of Ranka once again don’t try to be prepubescent in style.

            It’s undeniable that there’s a lot of Ranka fanservice (though not to the point there’s Sheryl fanservice, she’s the main in this regard after all above R and even Klan) avalaible but as far as the official material goes it’s *hardly* aimed at hardcore lolicon alone. To see real, full-on lolicon pandering in official merc etc. one look at official material for

            – Ro kyu bu
            – Lotte no Omocha
            – Kodomo no Jikan

            is all you need. But if they’re going to try selling, say, figurines they don’t try to make Ranka look like grade schooler – instead chances are high they’re going to ante up her bust size.

            Both Ranka and Sheryl pander a lot and Ranka is loli character to extent – which in turn is part of the pandering – BUT this hardly makes her primarily a lolicon bait character. If one looks at how exactly Satelight “whore” her out in merchandise it usually is much more “mainstream” in style. Also worth mentioning is that Aalot of her obvious moe traits like the fang or even flat chest are not intrinsically limited to lolicon crowd and are shared with characters of non-lolicon persuasion. If Misaka Mikoto, similarly flatchested 15 year old anime heroine, counts as a loli (and this seems to depend on person) then I guess Ranka does too. But Ranka looks more like Misaka than Kuroko who is undeniably loli, scrawny and barely looks like a pubescent person.

            (Of course even among “real” loli characters it’s hard to find one that is truly prepubescent in looks instead of kind of bizarre hybrid of flat chest, too large head and body type of adult. Fate Testarossa for example has a small rack and famously ass that puts most adult women to shame…and she’s supposed to be 9 years old *laugh*)

            >3.Also Klan doesn’t behave as though she’s a loli. So yeah bad comparison.

            It depends, actually. Most of loli Klan/Michail scenes have her lose about half of her mental age for squeaky eyed tsun tsun mode with emotional maturity of 10 year old. Of course she can be completely serious. She’s adult after all but it’s not honest to say Klan never behaves like a loli in loli form.

            >Also there are quite a few teenage loli characters, remember loli just means that they’re underage,

            Well yeah, if we use the oldest definition for the word. Under such definition nearly all anime heroines are lolis, even Sheryl who is 17! But obviously that’s not what I think if you call some character loli because underage heroines are so common the word means next to nothing if used like that and in modern use it tends to have more specific connotations.

            Okay, to make my point clearer since the term “loli” can mean so many different things: Ranka doesn’t look prepubescent and it’s in this sense I object to calling her loli. That’s all. But if we use word loli to mean kind of petite, young looking girl then yeah, she is.

          • Again, these distinctions are otaku-convenient. The way you write about lolis even Nabokov’s Lolita would have trouble making the distinction LOL

            Ranka is a loli type character, it’s how you distinguish her from Sheryl who is womanly. This is their design, and how they are primarily marketed. Now that didn’t quite work out for Ranka, so there’s a more mature approach (a preferable one at that), but do we suddenly forget ALL about the TV series now? Is that what the movies are for? Was DYRL? Minmay supposed to replace SDFM Minmay completely and utterly? I don’t think so either. So let us return to the earliest, most memorable presentation of Ranka.

            Very, mature for a teenager! From the outfit to the dance moves! NOTHING for lolicons here. Let’s move along shall we.

            But if we use word loli to mean kind of petite, young looking girl then yeah, she is.

            Nope. There’s a distinction, to use the similarly aged, similarly sized characters of Eureka and Anemone… one is definitely more loli than the other. Rei and Asuka are younger than almost anyone from Lucky Star, Haruhi, and K-On! LOL the loli appeal of NGE is very low, wheras it’s higher in the KyoAni examples. Oh yeah, Code Geass… Anya is older than Nunally and at probably the same age as Kallen. If we’re to accept that most of these character design decisions are not influenced by the lolicon market, then we’re… no I don’t accept it.

            And don’t forget Minmay! No one today would find her character design loli fap material, but this wasn’t the case in ’83. In Macross the First she gets to wear a sailor outfit while meeting Hikaru for the first time. OF course we know Mikimoto Haruhiko doesn’t like loli character designs! HE WOULDN’T. NO WAY.

            So, instead of trying (and failing) to convince everyone to accept your hair-splitting, relax, be happy. You’re not a degenerate lolicon (we all hope, and I’ll give you all the benefit of the doubt). Enjoy your Macross, it’s not all about lolis, just sometimes.

          • Xard says:

            hey, don’t blame the evolution of rather ambiguous term on me! The word does not get used in universally consistent fashion in, well, anywhere. If opposite of “womanly” is automatically loli, yeah, then that’s the case. But given the general age of anime protagonists and their physical type distribution I try to use the word in more precise fashion (because otherwise there are way too many borderline cases). For whatever it’s worth.

            Nyan Nyan dance is still totally awesome and seriously moe and adorable. But I have hard time seeing that as fanservice in some sexual sense. Yes, I accept Ranka defined as loli among lines of Nunally. As I said I only have issue with use of word when it equals with prepubescence.

            oh, and while we’re on the topic I should point out I have nothing against lolicon *in principle*. It’s pretty harmless, has no connection to genuine pedophilia (couple of really good friends of mine are pretty open about their openness to loli material too among the countless…imaginative possibilities japan’s pornographers offer. They’re rather normal and likeable guys to boot) and most consciously designed loli characters (as opposed to drawing a child like animators have always done) are kind of…distinct from looks of real children. I already mentioned her as example but someone like Fate Testarossa is good example of loli character in the sense she has way too pronounced curves and, say, buttocks to pass as a child. Mentally there’s nothing childlike about her. So attraction to typical kinda-prepubescent-but-with-crucial-pubescent-features-lolwtf-is-that-thing loli doesn’t even imply attraction to prepubescents. Which is why the kind of “sign of evil” air it carries around in some parts of western fandom is kind of overreaction to me (according to my japanese friend loliconesque material or whatever you want to call it isn’t looked commonly as harshly in Japan among anime fans). So you using words like “degenerate lolicon” is kind of uncalled IMO. Sounds like something Ishihara might say

          • So if you’re so okay with it, then you shouldn’t have a problem with all this and won’t really need to DEFEND Ranka from anyone. All I can offer you is my own example. Even at her worst, it doesn’t make me stop my appreciation and love. Love, after all, isn’t an effect — a reaction towards flawlessness or perfection. It’s the acceptance of something beyond traits. How else could I explain my love for the Gundam franchise?

            I mean, Gundam as a whole is a net negative aggregate; but, it is the idea and possibility of Gundam that is best and greatest in robot anime.

            It’s not like it’s Macross 7 which is unquestionably awesome. I cannot “love” Macross 7, I’m just at effect of its awesomeness.

    • Xard says:

      >This movie, This movie… My body wasn’t ready…

      The finale causes brain melt if seen on the big screen, to say the least…

      >Ranka didn’t seem like a Loli

      The cute little fairy is as close to loli as Ranka gets in the film, actually. Seriously though, this was never the case in film version and even in tv series loliness might’ve been matter of Satelight’s horrible track record for staying on model in tv series (LOL at Alto/Sheryl noses in one scene too many, Sheryl has occasional manface to say the least etc. so it’s hardly limited to greenhead) more than anything else. Either that or they really couldn’t decide how loli or “mature” they wanted her to appear throughout the series and things were left to animation director of each episode and scene in question. I mean, Sheryl mostly suffers from random manface moments and the never changing anime disease of severely fluctuating boob size… but at least she doesn’t go from looking like 12 to even looking like 18 depending on cut. That happened with Ranka a lot. For example in ep 10 scene where kawamori’s self-insert spots her singing on the hill she looks a lot older and more mature than on average (about 18 I’d say) – hell she actually seems to fill out that blue dress of hers through the episode. Same (facial) matureness comes to some cuts in final scene of ep 21. On the other hand in ep 16 scene where she’s speaking with Alto in her room she looks ridiculously scrawny and those sticky legs and hands are what you’d expect from 11-12 year old. So yeah, LOL

      Add this together with Ranka’s habit of favouring simple, occasionally childish clothes and that’s where the loli impression comes from (she doesn’t dress her age). If one looks at her character settei and Ebata’s artwork in general she *isn’t* very loli character. That is Klan’s territory. Ranka is flat and petite, yes, but she doesn’t really meet loli criterion apart from that.

      For film version of the story they finally set the visual age for her in stone. She looks and dresses her age (16) in films. I mean really, beyond her flatness there’s zero “loliness” about her bodyline or looks in general through Utahime and Sayonara (the beach scene at latest should’ve made that clear lol). She actually looks like how Ebata and concept artists like Hirotaka Marufuji tend to draw her. Just as important for the impression I think is that they consciously changed her general dresscode. She keeps that simple skirt of hers but apart from that Ranka dresses in much more womanly, fashionable way with that honestly elegant pink piece or the really really short pants + yellow-white shirt combo. In short she gives impression of 16 year old who isn’t completely unaware of her looks and gives them some attention.

      I didn’t actually consciously notice this myself but it was one long time, very knowledgeable (knew moonspeak and all better than I) Macross fan who pointed out (in retrospect) the obvious about Ranka’s more mature look and the dresscode. She said:

      “In the movies, I agree, but in the TV series, there were times she looked, dressed and acted younger than Klan’s apparent age (who always acted like an adult since she’s the oldest of the group). [ ]

      Her wardrobe and appearance was upgraded in the movies to make her dress like her age (Alto, in the TV series light novels, even lampshades this thinking anyone who would date Ranka would appear a lolicon, IIRC). I think she’s a total cutie when they stop treating her like a pre-pubescent girl. They fell into this trap in the Anime which grated me. She looks stunning when she doesn’t look too childish (her farewell scene in episode 21, for example).”

      I agree with her (at least I got impression the great fellow was a female for some reason) and in a sense Ranka losing the childish aura from tv series and having a lot more healthy relationship with Alto made the triangle more balanced as far as the beginning is considered. But the horde of other factors more than outdid that impact of that (childhood friend in particular is romantic dead flag) and as such the final outcome was clear from the start for both the viewer and Ranka alike – much moreso than in tv series.

      >Sheryl being so dedicated to singing that she actually rights the lyrics of her next song with the blood she coughed up

      To make it better they’re preliminary lyrical sketches for the title track!

      >Alto dresses up in a gothic loli dress

      yeah, this immeaditly put Alto to awesome tier. Now he doesn’t need to be ashamed of himself among the fine company of Isamu Dyson and the like.

      • Chan says:

        Ranka in the tv series being childish is why she never got any mature songs (according to an interview with Kanno). Because her personality was that of a younger female, they appearance to match, this was why she looked like she was 12 because she behaved like she was age. Even in the episodes you pointed out, she tended to have the body of a 10 year old, which is funny because back before we didn’t really get to knew her character she actually did look 16 (Miss. Macross contest). The characters would only treat Ranka like she was little girl, because she behaved that way, and the way you carry yourself effects the way people treat you.

        But movie Ranka she’s more mature, and so she gets altered design to appear that way (notice how she’s almost as tall as Sheryl now–even when Sheryl wears heels), songs to reflect her maturity (this was why only two of her in universe songs were immature–one being a carry over from the tv series), the rest of them were much more mature to reflect on the character. Though Kawamori did admit that there was something wrong with her character in the tv series, and he changed it in the movie. But considering the role reversal of the movie I wonder if you caught it? Ranka in the movies still looks childish but not the extent of tv series Ranka, because she is more mature she has to be portrayed as such.
        Compare artbooks
        Ranka’s latest artbook–http://www.animepaper.net/art/195083/macrossf-4
        Ranka’s first artbook– http://www.animepaper.net/art/152922/itsuwari-no-utahime
        Heck they even increased the heel in her older outfits so as to make her seem more like a young lady and less like a little girl.

        For Ghostlightning– Yeah I’d say that movie Ranka is taller than tv series Ranka–http://www.animepaper.net/art/185044/macross-frontier-picture

        • Cool beans. Thanks for the info.

          In the TV series, after landing on the Vajra home world the 2 girls hug and Sheryl is a full head taller than Ranka LOL (Assymetrical docking, as they say).

        • Xard says:

          >Kawamori did admit that there was something wrong with her character in the tv series, and he changed it in the movie.

          Yeah, true. Though not in the sense some wished. Ranka-antis parroted this for a long while and hilariously most delusional of them thought what he was thinking of was something wrong at the core of her character. That was not the case. It was not that she had behaved in some sort of deeply unethical way (LOL, despite what all the haters would’ve had one to believe in aftermath of ep 21 and the meltdown) or that there was some deep flaw in her personality.

          There was nothing wrong with the building blocks but Kawamori felt extremely strong guilt over how he and the storyline ended up treating Ranka in series second half – and with this he didn’t mean Evil Ranka Betrayed Humanity or any other fan bullcrap like that, he ment how she got majorly screwed over by practically every faction and ended up as a tool and a victim without much control over her life or ability to do much anything…and if she did try to do something on her own it would end in naught. Ranka lost nearly all autonomy after ep 12, culminating in her “getting used as a tool for evil” in Grace’s hands in the final showdown.

          “He couldn’t get over that” treatment and so we got her superb development in films. Kawamori specifically points out Utahime’s final act as the “AH! A divergence point” moment that defined how he’d write Ranka’s character untill the end. Which is exactly what he did.

          • Ranka v1:

            “Oh things have gone really bad, Ok onii-chan let’s go talk to the Vajra and tell them the humans are out to invade them. The Vajra will think of something to fix everything. Oh my friends will understand that they can’t help matters right now. Let’s trust in the aliens, I know their feelings. Humans are too hard.”

            Ranka v2:

            “Oh my things have gone really bad, Ok onii-chan I know you’re kind of like the enemy now and no one would believe me if I named you as my source. But I think I’ll tell my friends anyway and they’ll help me figure something out.”

            Of course not the exact dialogue. And before you run back to Kawamori, whatever he says only goes so far here (The Author is Dead, etc.).

            Both versions have a well-meaning protagonist. One of these choices constitutes a betrayal. It doesn’t make a character FUNDAMENTALLY evil, but then Judas really isn’t and look what he did (best narrative to see this context is Jesus Christ Superstar). I think you can tell which one is preferable, even by Kawamori standards.

          • Xard says:

            Believe me, there’s no reason for me to deny the superiority of film Ranka who among the superior film cast in general (Sheryl, Alto, Grace etc. are all superior to their series counterparts too IMO) was, personally speaking, exceedingly satisfying and made me truly happy. Film Ranka finally fullfilled the potential she had and is, as I said in my review, superb and absolutely definitive take on her character. Her end might’ve been more than a bit sad but in return I got incredibly strong girl (she really doesn’t lose out to Sheryl in films in this respect, something I can’t say about her tv incarnation) without losing any of her gentle and sweet nature. Above all as hinted by Kawamori, Megumi et al prior premiere she finishes the story as grown adult who has more than gone through her rites of passage and metamorphosis – thus making the film ver. of Frontier for her character arcperfectly executed bildungsroman (with Sheryl I can’t call it bildungsroman in format, Alto I’m not so sure of). She also got her best song here, song that quite probably is my favourite Macross song.

            Re: Author is Dead guhhh not touching this. I’ve studied, discussed and debated enough IRL and internet elsewhere. While I think the method has its merits if it’s taken literally and accepted fully the results are ugly and not what I approve. But that’s neither here or there.

            “Betrayal” implies abanbondment of humans when what happened is that Ranka refused to believe in binary choice between Vajra and mankind. She chose both, that’s why “betrayal” is wrong word.

            Anyway, this kinda OT tangent has dragged on long enough and I’m willing to drop it here. There’s certainly more I could say and more to reply Chan about (eg. Ranka looks cuuute, not childish, unless you equate the two and the “childish songs” is kinda lol because it implies the series songs of hers were somehow more “childish” than j-pop on average… which is kind of ludicruous and not even true. Hell, both Ranka and Sheryl have more than enough “shallow” tracks and at least Seikan Hikou’s lyrics are perfect for what they were and penned by recognized genius of the genre) but this is not the place or time for it

          • Chan says:

            This comment makes me wonder if you’ve ever been on any Macross forums, because I’ve heard nothing but praise for movie Ranka, even from those that hated the character in the tv series. Its to the point where some of them refer to the two of them as two separate characters. Also you underestimate the amount of criticism as it came from not only watchers of Macross but also form the staff as well (yes even NakaMegu) it was to the point where some of the staff members outright said that they’d rather Ranka not be in the love triangle at all. I know you’re a Ranka fan, and you wish to support the character and all, but that is the reality of the situation. Ranka did betray the trust of many people, by keeping information to herself that may very well have changed things for the better, which resulted in the death of thousands of people. Like it or not Ranka was responsible for that, did she mean to do it, no, but she still did it.

            Also Kawamori never once said that he felt bad or disappointed for what happened to Ranka, and how she was received, in fact its never brought up in his interviews, by either the staff or by the interviewer. The only thing that he gets flack for is about is mostly the love triangle and how Kawamori never solved it (which was a last minute decision, made by the script writer), or something else related to the production of MF.

          • Xard says:

            Well I was ready to drop this for now and I’m still going to do that and not touch in any part “betraying the trust” bit but I can reply tangential bits:

            >This comment makes me wonder if you’ve ever been on any Macross forums, because I’ve heard nothing but praise for movie Ranka, even from those that hated the character in the tv series.

            oh please. obviously you don’t know this but I’ve been mentioning this same thing on other places quite often. I also spent weeks just reading japanese blog posts and discussion on the music and the film last spring after my trip to Japan to see the film in cinema. I’ve been reading Macross forums for years and do know the ins and outs of the debates.

            >Its to the point where some of them refer to the two of them as two separate characters.

            I mean, sure, I can agree with that. That holds for all film characters. It’s not just Ranka, Alto and Grace both get called out in such fashion too a lot at least in japanese discussion. For me film Sheryl is also vast improvement on the original, both in terms of personality and most importantly in how she is integrated to main story.

            >Also you underestimate the amount of criticism as it came from not only watchers of Macross but also form the staff as well (yes even NakaMegu) it was to the point where some of the staff members outright said that they’d rather Ranka not be in the love triangle at all.

            You *still* have never given me the source for this. I’ve asked for it from you in past couple of times. I don’t find this incredulous (though Megumi’s love for Ranka overall is far beyond any doubt). I’d like to read this stuff if I actually, well, FOUND it somewhere. I’ve searched for it but the seiyuu interviews and the like you’ve alluded in past contain nothing as extreme as this, despite finding some of those from dedicated arusheri blog which would surely bring such matters up. The BD commentary tracks on the other hand give strong impression of creators being fond of the girls while Alto ends up constantly as kind of buttmonkey. 😛

            >Also Kawamori never once said that he felt bad or disappointed for what happened to Ranka, and how she was received, in fact its never brought up in his interviews, by either the staff or by the interviewer.

            and this shows I’m more up to date than you as I can source Kawamori’s words to his comments in Ranka Lee Visual Collection (got it as birthday present from friend in January), Sayonara no Tsubasa official guidebook (bought in Japan) and Cut Magazine’s June 2011’s big Macross feature/issue.

            I’m not really looking for a fight here nor do I intend to carry on the OT discussion but had to address that

          • Chan says:

            And yet your comments prove otherwise.

            Actually Grace is just like tv series Grace before episode 15 when Sheryl was deemed a failure. With Sheryl being a proven a success, Grace didn’t need to erase her memories of raising Sheryl. The characters who really changed in this movie were Ranka, Ozma, Brera, Nanase, and Luca. With the other characters they merely zeroed in one part of their personalities and played it up more.

          • Xard says:

            >Actually Grace is just like tv series Grace before episode 15 when Sheryl was deemed a failure. With Sheryl being a proven a success, Grace didn’t need to erase her memories of raising Sheryl.

            The tv series never makes any sort of memory deletion explicit. Either we had some pisspoor storytelling here or then you’re smuggling in material from novelization or other such source. There are also hints way before ep 15 of her not really giving two shits about Sheryl which is quite the difference to film Grace. The film Grace I could recognize as the one from Nyandora short story where she starts to develop attachment on Sheryl and deletes it, but in tv series proper?

            Also: changing the Big Bad of tv series into character who ultimately redeems herself is HUGE change in itself. Her development is vastly different from tv series and as such film!Grace and series!Grace being two very different personalities in the end is undeniable.

            >With the other characters they merely zeroed in one part of their personalities and played it up more.

            Pffffffft.

            You know what? Continue being as smug and cocky as you want. I’m through with this. Since apparently you and your perfect understanding is so above me and all.

          • Chan says:

            It was stated in the drama cds released as extras for the tv series.

            I’m not being smug but you are being overly defensive, seriously you’re pissed that Ranka lost the love triangle okay, but do you really gotta be such a jerk to everyone? Seriously dude take a chill pill.

          • Xard says:

            >It was stated in the drama cds released as extras for the tv series.

            For the TV series narrative to work it must be inferrable as a standalone. For film narrative to work it must be inferrable as a standalone. Grace getting memory wiped to lose her supposed attachment to Sheryl in ep 15 is given no hints about at all in the actual tv series and as such this is case of retcon.

            >I’m not being smug but you are being overly defensive, seriously you’re pissed that Ranka lost the love triangle okay, but do you really gotta be such a jerk to everyone? Seriously dude take a chill pill.

            Actually I’m not pissed about that ata all because I didn’t think she had a chance. So please could you stop making such blatant misjudgements of my character and opinions?

            What I *am not* happy with is your arrogance (I remember you once approving GL as “Ranka fan” because he did not make excuses for her bs – meaning you assume there’s no debate to be had on the matter at all, it’s only a question of acknowledgement) and smug style of making sweeping statements and claims and then failing to provide sources for them again. Want Kawamori’s comments on his aims with film Ranka’s development in concise as possible fashion? check out “Ranka in the movie” page in Visual Collection.

            Now I never got sources for quite a few claims you’ve made. You’re clearly not stupid or malicious so I’m presuming you just can’t be bothered to dig them up.

          • Chan says:

            It was released at the same time as the tv series, and no the tv series isn’t stand alone, there are a ton of short stories blog entries and what not that coincide with it.

            Again I’m not being smug, I’d like examples of where I was smug if you think that was what I was being. But you certainly have been defensive through out this entire post, on the subject of this movie, attacking people who have a separate opinion from your own, over exaggerating, then playing the victim. I came across a Ranka tard who behaves like you are right now, and because of her the entire forum for a while ended up hating the character again. Even with the discussion on whether Ranka why Ranka is considered loli you come up with hair brained excuses for yourself, on why she isn’t, when in reality you were giving out reasons for why it should be okay for you to like her (as though simply liking her character isn’t enough). Your going well out of your way to justify yourself, and coming off as a jerk even when ghostlightning told you that it was simply for fun and to not take it seriously. But instead you feel the constant need to attack others, under the guise that you are protecting a fictional character who you claim is being slandered all over the internet, and quite frankly that quite pathetic. Seriously get over yourself

          • Xard says:

            >It was released at the same time as the tv series, and no the tv series isn’t stand alone, there are a ton of short stories blog entries and what not that coincide with it.

            yes, but does such marketing etc. things really hold information *vital* for understanding the work? What about all the viewers who see it on much later date and never know about the official blogs and all? Let’s face it, most viewers will never familiarize themselves with these things.

            >Again I’m not being smug, I’d like examples of where I was smug if you think that was what I was being.

            “And yet your comments prove otherwise.” for starters. I also found some comments like “she still looks childish” too matter-of-factly when it really is up to opinion more. Word I’d use – and one that is commonly used – is cute.

            >But you certainly have been defensive through out this entire post, on the subject of this movie, attacking people who have a separate opinion from your own, over exaggerating, then playing the victim.

            I admit my discourse on the whole film-within-macross-universe/canon deal wasn’t really tactful and showcased my temperament more than anything (it doesn’t really help I’ve gone with 3-4 hours of sleep for days in a row now, hah). I already apologized for that. Apart from that I don’t think I’ve been intentionally mean and jerkassish to anyone apart from blowing my top off slightly in this current discussion. For which I’m sorry.

            >Even with the discussion on whether Ranka why Ranka is considered loli you come up with hair brained excuses for yourself, on why she isn’t, when in reality you were giving out reasons for why it should be okay for you to like her (as though simply liking her character isn’t enough).

            *sigh* Didn’t I already go through this enough times? I’ve explicitly said she is loli character here too, as long as we agree on what constitutes a “loli character”. The way you defined loli character? Absolutely, Ranka is loli character. The all-underage girls? Absolutely, Ranka is loli character. When I denied Ranka was loli character I was denying it only in very specific use of the word, that of loli character being automatically prepubescent in appereance. Ranka isn’t like the loli sensei in Index (who looks like a chain smoking 5 year old). This is what I was denying when I said she’s “not loli”. Of course under many other definitions of the word she is.

            Am I finally being clear here? That whole deal was needless mess born out of me not being clear enough what exactly I ment with the word when denying it.

            >Your going well out of your way to justify yourself, and coming off as a jerk even when ghostlightning told you that it was simply for fun and to not take it seriously.

            Sorry for not sharing the sense of humour.

          • Chan says:

            Yeah except those same Drama CDs explain things like when Alto changed his major, and what event lead him to decide that he wants to be pilot.why Grace picked up Sheryl where she picked her up, and how she got the v-type infection, which was where the manga took some of its information on concerning Sheryl’s past. Macross was always a multi media franchise.

            I’m talking about Ranka, and yes she does look childish I’m stating on opinion, but because its differs from you its me being smug? Seriously, dude, I know you like but get over it.

            Yes you are being an over reactive jerk, I don’t get upset when people speak badly about Minmei ( and she is one of my favorite characters of all time) so I don’t understand why you’re behaving this way about Ranka.

          • Xard says:

            >Yeah except those same Drama CDs explain things like when Alto changed his major, and what event lead him to decide that he wants to be pilot.

            Not crucial for the main narrative

            >why Grace picked up Sheryl where she picked her up, and how she got the v-type infection

            not crucial for the main narrative

            The information present in Drama CDs and alike is very much in style of expanded universe material for numerous franchises in general. It’s all nice little factoids and points of interests for hardcore fans but the series/films work on their own without them. They don’t put information *critical* for understanding the story in extra material because that would result in utter storytelling failure as far as the main work is considered. This is why you don’t have answer to what Aimo is hidden in some Ranka’s blog post nor do you find answer to villain motivation from supplementary book. Or hell, have a story’s climax in Drama CD! That would all be crummy storytelling.

            This is why Frontier films and series work as a standalone pieces like any decently written work (that is not a direct sequel or prequel for example) does.

            I too recognized the film Grace as one from the Nyandora (Nyandora is manga adaptation of four Drama CD stories in slightly altered fashion) but at least in manga version the memory wipe IIRC took place before events of Frontier tv series, thus meaning there’s no “gap” in Grace’s character development in the series.

            If we go by Drama CD canonity however there’s huge flaw in her characterization as no attention is ever drawn to such operation taking place despite how big deal it is. Grace’s character development is thus incredibly obfuscatingly done and leaving such a “gap” is rather inexcusable from storytelling pov.

            >I’m talking about Ranka, and yes she does look childish I’m stating on opinion, but because its differs from you its me being smug?

            Of course not. Duh. Opinions are opinions and as such fine. The way you worded it sounded just very matter of factly to me (as in “she was made to look childish”) instead of being personal evaluation.

            >Yes you are being an over reactive jerk, I don’t get upset when people speak badly about Minmei ( and she is one of my favorite characters of all time) so I don’t understand why you’re behaving this way about Ranka.

            Call it a streak of self-righteousness or whatever but I have hard time if I see what I consider unjust accusations if I care about them. I tend to leap in their defence if I care enough (mostly I just shrug such instances of). I’ve done same for other characters too. I don’t like her as much as Ranka but I’ve defended Minmay too in similar fashion when I felt criticisms were unjust (there just isn’t that many situations where I’ve felt need to do that and DYRL turned her into one of the most beloved 80s characters anyway long ago).

      • plasticzaku says:

        I was going “wtf?” at Ranka morphing throughout the show, I’m glad someone else noticed it too. Sometimes she looks like she’s 10, very rarely does she look her actual age. I much prefer movie Ranka. She’s still clearly the cute/sweet/innocent/moe/lolibait/etc character to contrast with Sheryl, but I don’t expect Alto to be arrested just for being seen with her.

        You’ve spent way too much time researching this, btw. Unless this is your thesis, or something.

        • Xard says:

          >I was going “wtf?” at Ranka morphing throughout the show, I’m glad someone else noticed it too. Sometimes she looks like she’s 10, very rarely does she look her actual age.

          uhh, yeah. Frontier tv series wasn’t exactly exemplary when it comes to keeping characters on model in general anyway. When she’s actually on model Ranka always looked like a flatchested 14-15 year old (and she is 15 in the beginning) to me so she’s supposed to be somewhat younger looking…but not to extent she often seemed. Similarly few bouts of looking more mature than on average without reason was another negative deviation (as far as production quality check is considered). In a sense Ranka got the worst of it for whatever reason but it’s not like others escaped unscatched. I probably get murdered for saying this but Sheryl’s face looked rather mannish to me on quite few occasions and this definetly wasn’t helped by her GIANT NOSE LOL that would suddenly attach on to her face seemingly at random. Of course that wasn’t limited just to her, rendering Ebata’s great but somewhat distinct from the typical designs seemed to be especially hard when it comes to noses. For non-Sheryl example take a look at ep 17 scene where Cathy is overseeing the punishment given for Alto and Mikhail. Whenever we get to that slow angle shot of her she looks mannish to point of making me go “oh god a shemale” and that NOSE. Not to mention Hime’s terrifying beak, LOL.

          I think Ebata’s designs were genuinely pretty great and attractive (not meaning just sex appeal lolololol here) but to give them justice consistently we had to wait for film version…which is less extreme version of my feelings on SDFM/DYRL. Mikimoto’s designs were terrific but only in DYRL were they allowed to bloom through and through. Misa is gorgeous when on model but in kind of reverse-Ranka looked way too old and unflattering in tv series for a long while, meaning Frontier isn’t the first time franchise has problems with the character age (they realized they had kinda fucked up and towards the end of the series Misa starts to look a lot *younger* and more money was spend on her in general in order to rectify the mistake). I find film incarnations of both characters much more attractive even if their off-model problems were mostly opposites.

          (As for Macross 7, justice never came there as Mikimoto’s ok designs were butchered to differing degrees in the pre-production and were given very “un-mikimoto” feel in the end. Just compare how Mylene looks in the EDs full of Mikimoto’s original art and how she looks in series proper to see what I mean)

          It was only with Utahime that Sheryl’s gorgeousness was consistently portrayed without a hitch and film Ranka resembled much more consistently the one from design sheets and promo art (Ranka’s looks did get a maturity makeoverin any case but the gap between promo art and her film look isn’t quite as big as the one between series and films). Oh and I still lol at Kawamori making Ebata give Alto womanly hip line for the film version. 😆

          >I much prefer movie Ranka. She’s still clearly the cute/sweet/innocent/moe/lolibait/etc character to contrast with Sheryl, but I don’t expect Alto to be arrested just for being seen with her.

          There’s no reason to even trap oneself with such modern and otakucentric “tagging” because Frontier’s triangle follows the eternal format for love triangle that has a guy between two girls, that of Betty and Veronica (named after Archie’s duo). The film version of MacrossF even moreso because they went as far as making Ranka Alto’s friend. To quote the accursable though in cases like this useful tv tropes:

          “One of the most common types of Love Triangle, wherein the male hero is caught between his affections for two girls with drastically different personalities. “Betty” is the sweet, reliable, everyday Girl Next Door (if done wrong, this can mean: ‘kinda dull’), whilst “Veronica” is more alluring, exotic and edgy, but has a more ‘troublesome’ or ‘dangerous’ personality (which usually means ‘kinda slutty’). This translates to their physical appearances; “Betty” will be usually be something of a ‘Plain Jane’ (or at least as close as Hollywood gets to ‘Plain Jane’), whilst “Veronica” will be Ms. Fanservice in all her glory. Look out for color-coding, though not always uniform; A blonde Betty will be paired with a dark or red-haired Veronica, while a brown- or red-haired Betty will be opposite a blonde Veronica.

          The usual dynamic is that “Betty”, often the hero’s best friend, is herself deeply in love with him (although the hero might see them as Just Friends or being Like Brother and Sister, hence his obliviousness to her feelings) [ ]

          Comfortable and safe, Betty does not shake up your world. Picking Betty means you are happy with your life options and don’t want to change things too much. Veronica is completely different from what you are used to. Veronica opens your mind to new possibilities and changes your world. Choosing Veronica suggests you are dissatisfied with the options life has given you and you want something else (even if you don’t know what the “else” is).

          The exact details of how these characters are presented frequently depends on the genre of the story. Whilst the “Betty” template — everyday and normal — rarely changes that much, this doesn’t necessarily equal ‘boring’: Nerds Are Sexy and the Hot Librarian / Hot Scientist tropes exist for a reason. The “Veronica” template is open to a bit more variety, but she is nevertheless frequently the type of character who falls into the Femme Fatale, Broken Bird or Dark Action Girl roles in the story — or, alternatively, what ever allows for more Fanservice. On anime she’ll probably be a Tsundere. In any case, the line is still the “safe” vs. “risky” choice.”

          Macross Plus is the same too apart from addition of Guld’s rage issues, just gender inversed. We have the brash and rebellious Isamu and then there’s the caring and serious Guild. Only thing that doesn’t fit the same old scheme is the whole Guld-losing-his-mind bit of the backstory but prior to that event you can count on the relationship between the trio being exactly like that.

          >You’ve spent way too much time researching this, btw. Unless this is your thesis, or something.

          hahaha 😆

          well, yeah I can write a great deal just about character models like this so you really don’t want to see me get serious about, say, merits of hylemorphic dualism as a philosophy or connections between Master Eckhart’s theology and Buddhism or start writing some sort of essay on influence of 60s 70s japanese arthouse directors on Hideaki Anno’s style. I usually exhaust even myself if I try to do that. This is the kind of troublesome personality you get if you tend to split your free time between watching animus and reading books on grain plasticity or jungian psychology or something 😛

          Seriously speaking, while I think “research” is too strong word I did look into this a bit deeper. I once wondered if the “modulation” apparent in Ranka’s look was supposed to parallel her development in a visual way (for example she looks generally much more mature in ep 21’s Ao no Ether scene than in ep 11’s cookies of love and fail). Given that I’ve once watched huge chunks of Eva with audio channels handled in a way that pretty much mutes dialogue entirely so I can just focus on studying the sound design it wasn’t such a extreme feat to me… Eva also kinda gave me the idea because Asuka in the series fluctuates too, being occasionally ridiculous sex bomb and in some scenes of depressed vulnerability looking paper thin, scrawny and fragile.

          Well, while I think some bits (like the way she is drawn in ep 21’s “goodbye” moment) are intentional in general there was no pattern to uncover here which was kind of disappointing as it really ment they just kind of kept screwing around with the char. models for no discernible reason except production incompetence or indecision on part of creators.

    • It’s funny I’ve watched Macross F since the Deculture ed of ep 1 up to Sayonara no Tsubasa and until I read this thread I never once even considered labeling Ranka as a loli type. I guess you can call me naive if you want but she just looks and acts her age (most of the time) to me. I guess this is why I tend to avoid discussion threads like this because you tend to start over analyzing to the point where you’ve created facts out of theories.

      Although I won’t deny there are some good points in here but to me Ranka is just Ranka. Any appeal to any set of subgroups, unless proved intentional, is just a by product of a diverse world we live in. I just find it sad that in modern society that once you throw out a term like loli on something it immediately requires everyone to have to prove their innocence on the subject matter no matter how ridiculous it sounds to you.

      Also my favorite part of the movie was easily Ranka’s first concert. I’ve been listening to the soundtrack since it came out around 8 months again (one of my favorite soundtracks of all time) and Niji Iro Kuma Kuma was instantly my favorite track on the album. It was a treat to see such a well imagined concert that fit Ranka so well, in my opinion anyways.

      • So she’s actually 12 and not 17? I suppose 12 isn’t a loli type age because we’re stricter these days!

        Although I won’t deny there are some good points in here but to me Ranka is just Ranka. Any appeal to any set of subgroups, unless proved intentional, is just a by product of a diverse world we live in. I just find it sad that in modern society that once you throw out a term like loli on something it immediately requires everyone to have to prove their innocence on the subject matter no matter how ridiculous it sounds to you.

        Mmmm no, not if you want to sell stuff. Remember, this stuff is supposed to sell. You need some people to be a certain way for the material to appeal to them that certain way. Like I said to Xard or to anyone, I’m fine with liking Ranka, that doesn’t automatically turn me into the worst examples of otaku lolicon. I don’t have to defend myself nor explain myself. Xard shouldn’t have to, but he insists on denying the loli tag so, so desperately… which is lulz.

        Does being a loli type character make Ranka a bad character? An inferior character? Again, no. Extremists (whether trolls or victims) tend to dump on the moderates (such as myself) because I dunno, maybe they think it’s easier? Bottom line is, Ranka is and always will be a favorite character of mine and she’ll forever be loved in all her forms here on WRL.

        • “So she’s actually 12 and not 17? I suppose 12 isn’t a loli type age because we’re stricter these days!”
          Sorry I don’t understand what your referring to in this sentence.

          Anyways I completely agree with the selling point I just disagree on who shes being pandered too. Without a doubt she is at least being sold as a moe type character, I mean just look at her eyes compared to Sheryl’s they are twice as big. If you want to say loli=moe then I guess that’s a matter of definition but to me its a big difference. I pretty much agree with everything else though.

          • Chan says:

            Well considering the type of merchandise and the way she is depicted, I would have to say that yes, she was made to be a loli character.

          • lolimoe, do we really have to create such a fine distinction? Moe can be anything, but a teenager who looks 10-12 years old is what Ranka was, and in some cases, still is, especially during her concerts — where we can assume she’s making the most effort to be appealing.

            Now, the thing is can someone who looks like the way she does appeal to someone other than dirty otaku? Why yes. Sheryl finds her cute, and so do I. Look around this blog enough and you’ll see that there’s a lot of Ranka love here. It doesn’t change how her appearance has a strong appeal for the otaku demographic, and we do know that they are into loli and moe. She was there to cover that base, since Sheryl covered the others, as far as Macross Frontier as a whole went.

      • Chan says:

        The term loli is generally used to describe a young female character who is under the age of consent or looks the part, which Ranka does.

        • So I wonder if this whole thread about people who are arguing with different ideas of what loli means? lol Personally the definition I have always thought it was is someone who is pre-teenage, not under the age of consent, which I don’t consider Ranka to look like.

          • The definitions have evolved as otaku have found more and more ways to be discerning and become connoisseurs of sexual/romantic substitutes/fetishes, etc. In 1983 Minmay was considered loli, no one would accuse her of that now. We know she was loli because the 3 Zentraedi spies names were Warera, Rori, and Konda… to form the inside joke: WARERARORIKON (We are lolicons). So I don’t suggest taking distinctions for granted, they are only truly crystal clear among the “experts” and fans of such fare.

            It is quite natural for a non-anime fan to consider Ranka prancing about in her baby doll dresses as prepubescent (especially how us Asians tend to look quite young for our age), and how her Disney fairy stuff is inappropriate when they consider she’s wearing a garterbelt over her underpants. Unless they are those whacko mothers who dress up their children like hookers and make them join pageants.

          • Chan says:

            Well if you’ll end up in jail for having sex with her? and you have to card her to be sure of her age, then yes that girl is a loli.

          • Dearline says:

            In the Tv series, Ranka played the part of Mao Nome… who was a loli.

          • Mao Nome is 15, Minmay’s age. Like Ranka, who was cast to play her in a movie, her physique is pre-pubescent. Macross Zero had frontal nudity for this character, just as it did for a similarly-physiqued character in Macross Dynamite 7 (and Earth Maiden Arjuna). Kawamori is revered as a god-tier lolicon.

            Minmay is younger than Ranka. The loli “type” has to do with the rendition of the physique to look more like a child’s.

        • Xard says:

          uhhh I’m pretty sure Mao Nome was supposed to be ELEVEN. At least that’s how I always hear it and get mindfucked over it. I thought she looked 14 or so when I watched Zero so hearing that really LOLWUT’d me. I have no recollection of any Mao nudity in Zero tbh and since she often looked like early teenager to me I don’t think she was anywhere near as prepubescent looking like that Zolan girl in Dynamite 7 was. Now that was a genuine loli of loliest order. Ep 2 being largerly her prancing around naked was kind of…really LOL. I don’t remember the kid from Arjuna ever going nude though. Kawamori didn’t even direct Dynamite 7 so cut him some slack 😛

          in other news Ranka and IIRC Mao are nowhere near the Arjuna girl (was she even supposed to be a teenager? I thought she was 10 or so) or the Zolan girl.

          • Oh fuck she IS 11, and yeah she gets very naked. One does not easily forget the surprise of these things.

          • Xard says:

            >Oh fuck she IS 11, and yeah she gets very naked.

            Well, Kawamori is just giving a healthy reminder how artificial our modern standards of marital age and all by having spunky loli who mostly looks and behaves like girl few years older… I think. 😛

            When does Mao get naked? I really don’t remember such thing happening, only nudity I remember from Zero is Sara causing hornyness, guilty and confusion in Shin while she made rocks levitate.

          • Xard says:

            well I just went jumped through the five eps and didn’t see a scene like that…also, Mao looks a lot younger than I remembered overall (my strongest memory of her was how she looked in the scene where they went to swim in the ocean). While I didn’t see any Mao nudity there WAS this bit of younger Sara:
            http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/snap2011110220h09m16s11.png/

            I wouldn’t call it fanservice though.

  16. Nishimura says:

    This movie was simply a feast for the eyes and it’s sad to think that we probably won’t get anymore Macross Frontier. Well, at least I can rewatch the movies again and again to make up for that.

    As for my favorite moments in the film, the end of the film and confirmation of the true couple was a blast simply because usually my favorite to win a triangle always ends up losing, though I can’t believe I doubted Sheryl’s awesomeness even for a second. Then there’s the awesome concerts and the final song with their mind numbingly gorgeous animation. But nothing beats Sheryl in a military uniform.

    Oh, who am I kidding, Sheryl made this movie awesome.

    • Hehe I know what you mean.

      Look out for posts 3 and 6 then.

      3. The Resolution of the Triangle (November 3)

      6. Sheryl Nome: The Most Awesome Woman in Anime (November 6, tentative).

      I’ll be discussing the things you like in those posts in detail :3

    • Of all fictional pop stars, Sheryl’s one of three (along with Minmay and Ranka) that I can gladly tolerate because Sheryl doesn’t do any of those ultra-high-pitched glass-breaking performances (i.e Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion) that, sadly, has become typical singing-contest fare in the Philippines.

  17. Turambar says:

    WAIT WHAT THE SHIT ISAMU?!

    IN AN UPDATED LOOK FOR MY FAVORITE VALKYRIE EVER?

    AFLKDJLFJSDHFKSHFKSHFSDHFJSDFSHDFHSDHFS ORGAMSING SO HARD RIGHT NOW!

  18. Shinmarizu says:

    OMG I HAVE NEVER ORGASMSMSMSMSMED SO HARD.

    DAMN YOU ISAMU
    DAMN YOU CAPTAIN WILDER
    DAMN YOU MACROSSES

    …excuse me, I need to clean up the excessive mangasmsmsmsmsms. Though this does NOT trump my love for Sheryl (good on you, Alto) – such a feat is now impossible now.

    MACROSS IS WHY I BECAME AN ANIME FAN.

    My first real exposure to anime was watching Macross II. I wanted more. The Macross II DVD on my shelf is the first anime DVD I BOUGHT. And so I became an anime addict.

    For giving me my first love in anime, and eventually my favourite love in Sheryl, I raise my glass. Fill it with whatever, Kawamori.

    NOW TO REMEMBER LOVE REPEATEDLY UNTIL IT BURNS ITSELF INTO MY SOUL!!! AGAIN!!!

  19. Pingback: The Second of Six Posts on Macross Frontier Sayonara no Tsubasa: A Tale of Two Movie Adaptations–Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann vs. Macross Frontier | We Remember Love

  20. OT: I find it very ironic (and shivering) that as we were debating over Ranka’s merits, a real-life super-idol’s biological father was stabbed to death for being drunk and disorderly. Shit really happens.

    • Nothing compared to 2009 when I published my big DYRL? post and the composer of the OST (including ai oboete imasu ka?) killed himself the same day.

    • I meant to reply sooner, but yeah I heard about Charice Pempengco’s dad. Whoa.

      I also find it interesting how here in the Philippines the dominant idol mode is to be wholesome and demure, and at the same time belt out vocals like Whitney/Celine/Mariah.

      The alternative is to be slutty-looking and belt out vocals like Whitney/Celine/Mariah.

      LOL

  21. Glad to see so many Isamu fans out there, me and watching buddies almost all fangasm’d at this very moment (much more than the Lovely Bomber concert which was already over the top, and not counting Jeffrey [foreshadowed] surfing and… JUST FUCKING EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS MOVIE).
    If I were to nitpick, I would have fangasm’d even more if he came with his legendary YF-19 #4 Alpha One instead of the VF-19EF Caliburn but that’s gratuitous hyper-criticism.

    (One a side note I’m glad I was lucky enough to watch the Japanese blu-ray, sized down BR-rip doesn’t do enough justice to the movie).

    Can’t wait to read your next posts about this movie ❤

  22. Xard says:

    Well, to share some of the random knowledge I’ve accumulated since last spring here are couple of What Might Have Been Top Moments But Got Cut:

    – in early plans they considered throwing in a new, third songstress in the film (Mari Makinami the Idol!). There are some very preliminary design sketches of her by Ebata in Official Complete Book for the film alongside with comments how difficult it was to come up with design with new principles distinct from design philosophy behind the other two (“Cute Ranka-chan, cool Sheryl-san” is how Ebata put it)

    Needless to say I think this was a bad idea and I’m glad they came to this conclusion too. Nevertheless it was interesting concept…

    – “What happened to Klan focus”

    in original plans for the film version and interviews given Klan was drummed up a lot and they considered making her a third lead heroine for films. Eventually the things got a form in which 10 minute short film of Klan was supposed to be made and presumably shown alongside with Utahime. However Utahime went way beyond its original planned running time and thus they realized they had to drop the short film…and as a result they also left out more Klan focus.

    This is a shame, I would’ve loved to see a Klan shortie!

    – Originally Alto/Ranka beach date sequence was supposed to be a lot longer. To make the parallel to Alto/Sheryl “star date” from ep 5 and first film even stronger Sheryl was supposed to have a concert on the beach they’d end up witnessing, just like Sheryl and Alto saw Ranka’s improvised performance in Formo.

    – What is really cool about this is that Sheryl’s planned outfit was Egyptian in style! You can actually see Risa Ebata’s sketches for it in Official Complete Book. The vaguely Egyptian bikini stuff with Pharaoh headband thing looks equally cool and ridiculous, LOL. Makes me wonder what kind of song it would’ve been…

    – The Film was split and written in form of five acts (A-E part). The names for individual set pieces were:

    1. A Part After Three Months (opening sequence, Sheryl’s concert etc.)
    2. A-B Part Two Divas (establishing the lead characters, their changes and relationships. Everything up to Ranka’s concert)
    3.B Part Open Ranka! (Ranka/Nanase scene in backstage and Niji Iro Kuma Kuma
    4. B Part Close Encounter (the big battle coinciding with Ranka’s Love is a Dogfight)
    5. B Part Triangles (everything up from Ranka speeding to hospital where Alto is to Sheryl’s arrest)

    Incidentally the point when the film utterly gets derided from second cour’s narrative once and for all. Not surprisingly part changed

    6. C Part Revolt S.M.S (everything up to Ranka coming up with the prison break plan)
    7. C-D Part Ranka with Lovely Bomber (Seikan Hikou/Get it On)
    8. D Part Brothers Battle (self-explanatory, everything from scene where Sheryl rests her head on Ranka’s lap like on mother’s to supposed death of her and Ozma)
    9. D Part Ambition’s End (what a fitting name, Mishima’s end, preparations for the final showdown etc.)

    Then the final act:

    10. E Part Houkago Overflow (Ranka’s Confession and Houkago Overflow
    11. E Part Last Song (everything between Houkago and Sayonara no Tsubasa)
    12. E Part The End of Triangle (Sayonara no Tsubasa – the end of triangle performance and resolution, Vajra departure and Alto disappearing)

    Then finally we have the Epilogue

    **********

    Well, just some random crap I thought might be interesting.

    • So happy they scrapped the third idol.

      The Klan scenes should be released as a side story kind of like Macross 7: The Galaxy is Calling Me.

      Great stuff on the ‘acts’ — I’ll have use for this in future posts.

      Thanks.

      • Xard says:

        >So happy they scrapped the third idol.

        Agreed.

        >Great stuff on the ‘acts’ — I’ll have use for this in future posts.

        Thanks, that wasn’t big deal. The actual book is really indepth and informative here as there’s kawamori’s commentary on each “scene” and full spread dedicated to it. Reading and studying it also influenced my very high opinion of just how well the film was put together, paced etc. – I only then partly realized how carefully it had all been thought out. (I particularly enjoyed the bits on Aimo scene because the contrast noted there in plain text was exactly the one I always thought was the key point with thematic “roles” Ranka and Alto had. In other words, vindication!)

        I got inspired to take another look at the book when due to some above discussion on it I decided to see if there was anything Ebata said on Ranka’s mahou shoujo costume. Gahh kanji soup… some other costume comments were much easier though. Her initial idea for Ranka’s swimsuit was more in line with school swimsuit but they went for bikini in rather adult taste in the end (“Ranka’s chest is small but daring to go for bikini is good point” LOL Ebata), I guess to reflect the difference between her and her predecessor. The very 80s (to me) koi wa dogfight costume in turn not that surprisingly namedrops Mylene immeaditly. Hoshikira outfit has its beginning in song image of Sou Da Yo if I understood the kanjis correctly. Oh, and with Sheryl’s military uniform Ebata can’t stop drawing attention to her ass LOL this woman I swear… haven’t actually looked at these in detail before so just some preliminary kinda loltastic tidbits.

  23. Pingback: The Resolution of the Triangle—The Third of Six Posts on Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye | We Remember Love

  24. Vendredi says:

    How old is Isamu by this point in the Macross timeline anyway?

    Also, I do agree we need a Macross Plus styled spinoff about the formation of SMS by a joint partnership between Bilrer (providing the capital) and Dyson (providing the training and expertise). Maybe throw in a plot about terrorist elements trying to restart the Ghost X-9 or something.

    • He was born March 7, 2015 so that makes him 44 at 2059, not too bad at all. Definitely younger than Surfer Jeff.

      Myung is in the picture too, assisting Bilrer with his own singing=fold waves research.

  25. Pingback: The Fourth of 6 Posts on Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye–Photoshop Frontier & The Rehabilitation of Grace, Alto & Ranka | We Remember Love

  26. Pingback: Going Beyond The Impossible: The Reconstruction of the Macross Frontier Canon—The 5th of 6 Posts on The Wings of Goodbye | We Remember Love

  27. Pingback: Sheryl Nome is The Most Awesome Woman in Anime—The Sixth of Six Posts on Macross Frontier The Wings of Goodbye | We Remember Love

  28. Xard says:

    >OPEN! Ranka!

    …uhh yeah I guess I’m not only one whose mind went in the gutter when first hearing the new “kira” (“wait is that suggesting what I think it was sugges-” was how I reacted to the Christmas live bootleg where I first heard the song). Seems to be somewhat less uncommon reaction with English speaking world… Thankfully there really hasn’t been much fanart that went and run with *that* understanding of the phrase and looking at the lyrics and who wrote them (Kanno), the way how that supposed “innuendo” completely flew over japanese heads in general and the key visuals of the scene show it really means opening the heart there really isn’t any reason to think there’s anything leery to the phrase. Just a choice of words that may come off a bit more naughtier to fluent speaker than japanese ment it to be understood… <__Oh God please don’t stuff Sheryl in that outfit… she’s had so many terrible ones already.

    ehh, I love the outfit and I think it’s great design. It’s my favourite from the film with the cute cardigan-on-waist schoolgirl look of Houkago Overflow and Sheryl’s epic military uniform.

    The colour co-ordination and choices are superb and the design in general gives off a definitive, fluffy and loveable mahou shoujo vibe while still being *really* unique among the supposed mahou shoujo getups. It’s not just MS cuteness (Madoka’s outfit for example) it has – the other thing it goes for is lovably old school brand of fabulous.

    This is the element of live scene that I think many may miss but there’s this really strong vibe of early 20th Century music hall/vaudeville and the like in it. The beginning is very much a theatrical play with the timid, shy village maiden Ranka casting a magical spell (riramerurarameruranruraran HHHNNGGG) that summons a magician “gentleman” to help her and free her from anxiety and to reveal her feelings. Look at the faaabulous way Mahou Shoujo Ranka behaves, using the giant key like a cane and all. She looks she might start stepping any given moment! Of course she’s got a top hat and later on even a bloody monocle for the fabulous gentleman effect! *laugh*

    Afterwards she gives the encouragement and strenght of heart for the village maiden Ranka to open her heart (using the key and if you wonder what’s up with the teddy bears all over the place it’s a visual symbol and a pun for “kuma kuma” feeling which IIRC is basically fuzzy, fluffy emotion apparent in the scene) which leads into her transformation into a cute fairy and then the world is fairy tale, sunshine and lollipops with the fairy Ranka carrying these teddy bears to give strenght for trembling, quivering maiden hearts in love among audience (o hai Sheryl! :D). “Otome kokoro yuuki dashite!” 😆

    The vaudeville and can-can and whatnot is written all over the outfit. Beyond the most obvious parts like using the key like a cane and the jolly old top hat her “shirt” is a play on tailcoat! She also got a collar and a necktie to go with it (and to split the big open cleavage area in two which in a way just gathers more attention to the chest area, lol).

    Emotion Style Ranka and Sheryl for first film both kinda suck (Sheryl moreso, the face is seriously off) so I don’t rec them either. I don’t get it why we still haven’t got any proper 1/8 PVC figures of Sayonara. WTF are Megahouse, Alter and the like doing…I want my mahou shoujo Ranka at least.

    • Xard says:

      whoops lol, started writing the figure reply in wrong window and hit enter. Too bad I can’t cancel the psot and re-send it.

      So to continue:

      The vaudeville and can-can and whatnot is written all over the outfit. Beyond the most obvious parts like using the key like a cane and the jolly old top hat her “shirt” is a play on tailcoat! She also got a collar and a necktie to go with it (and to split the big open cleavage area in two which in a way just gathers more attention to the chest area, lol).

      This in itself is in style with more “scandalous” man’s suiteque clothing one could see show women use in some more “raunchy” performances.

      The high heels, the stockings and the garterbelt also come from the can-can dancers and their ilk of the same old entertainment traditions. This (and the whole tie-cleavage thing) is what gives the feminine, eroticized edge to the outfit that in general has more to do with men’s attire of era.

      In any case I absolutely love the costume. It looks great and the colours chosen are wonderful. Most importantly the degree of imagination and uniqueness inherent in it makes it really, really stand out. It’s equally mahou shoujo, gentleman and his top hat and titillating dancer. There’s no other combination quite like it among Macross wardrobes.

      I love it because it’s at the same time really cute but also has strong touches of fabulousness, old school and eroticism in rather good taste (despite the garterbelt). As such it’s a perfect outfit for 16 year old idol with Ranka’s image. Titillating but not tasteless, cute but not saccharine, old school but not out of place in Frontier’s SFverse.

    • Xard says:

      BUT I think it only works with physique like Ranka’s. If you go and show in a woman with Sheryl’s rack and all all you’re going to think is “damn that is kinda porny”

    • Oh believe me, that statement is made for the gutter. I just won’t open that can of worms with you Mr. Ranka. Also, I’m agreeing with you re Sheryl — if you put her there it’d look terrible, not particularly dissing your favorite design no matter how pr0ntastic it is to begin with (I don’t have a problem with pr0ntastic, I just won’t encourage my daughter to wear them LOL).

      Oh I just thought of something… If you want to see a cute/moe meets slutty kind of presentation in an idol group… I think SNSD does it best (in this video, and perhaps Run, Devil, Run)

      • Xard says:

        >Oh believe me, that statement is made for the gutter. I just won’t open that can of worms with you Mr. Ranka.

        Well honestly, I do think you’re being a bit too uncharitable to poor old anime creators in this respect in general 😆

        For example loli characters are popular and if you think about it even work like Azumanga Daioh has its Token Loli character in high school setting (and we get to see her in sukumizu and all later on O M G). So is Chiyo-chan a blatant lolicon bait character and thus covers for another “audience” the girls draw to work on their own? Hakase was by far the most popular character in Nichijou in Japan – is this more pandering to the lolifap crowd?

        Now the thing is that such loli characters are really popular in Japan in principle – and not only among hardcore loli doujinshi consuming serial masturbators. Loli characters like them are just typically liked in completely non-sexual way so even though it’s probable they partly exist there to boost popularity neither character *panders* to hardcore LO magazine buying crowd primaly. They attach themselves to series in any case. The appeal is more general. Among Sayotsuba comments WHEEE RORI SHERIRU KYAAAA is really common reaction…but rarely if ever do I feel there’s some sort of loliconish undertone to such comments. Cute lolis are just popular in the first place.

        In the distant past I remember I had hard time coming to terms with Ranka fanservice (she was too “pure” character in my eyes, stop leering on my imouto goddamnit etc.) but nowadays – partly due to change in her character in films – I don’t have a problem with it in principle as long as it’s not in bad taste… and I acknowledge there *are* instances of it where I’d prefer there’d be none. To prove this:

        While Sheryl and Klan are more fanservice deliverers than she ever was poor Ranka ended up as a target of the worst, the most humiliating and degrading fanservice scene in the series and I’m forever vengeful towards Hiroyuki Yosino for that. I’m of course referring to ep 13’s I-gotta-pee scene which has got Yosino’s blatant fetishism for the subject written all over it and japanese fans responded in predictable fashion that makes me reach for brain bleach. If you somehow think placing the blame on that piece of perverted leering on Hiroyuki I-created-Qwaser Yosino is off all I need to say is “Sora no Woto episode 8”. SAME GUY WROTE THAT, IT’S BEYOND DISPUTE.

        So I’ve admitted long ago they’ve used Ranka in fanservice pandering I really could live without. So really, when I deny it here with “Open Ranka!” phrase I’m not going out of limb or act out of “no way they’d do that to Ranka-chan”. I just genuinely think there isn’t much of a case here. There’s zero actual evidence to that end and I already presented many reasons why there’s no reason to think there’s more to phrase than what film makes apparent (contrast this with open fanservice of Sheryl and of Ranka too in first film so it can’t be matter of “can’t be too explicit”). Even more importantly it’s too obscure for the supposed target audience to pick on in general. I see discussion and love for the scene and song all the time but I can count “oopun ranka eroi www” styled comments on one hand next to thousands of going on about its maximum cuteness and loveliness.

        It even came up with 2ch discussion about the film suggested by one viewer. Incredibly enough even there vast, vast majority of anonymous didn’t think there was anything to it and we’re talking about context where open lusting and general perversion with the characters was visible everywhere around! So really now, either the whole innuendo is entirely accidental or then they screwed up big way – and it’s not like they’ve failed to deliver fanservice in the past in other contexts by being too subtle with it!

        It’s not impossible but it just doesn’t seem very beliavable scenario to me which is why I don’t buy it and last thing I want to do is go parading around a dirty mind where most people don’t see anything but cuteness. In contrast the Kaitaku Juuki bulldozer and Valkyrie outfit scenes in first film are blatant fanservice.

        >Also, I’m agreeing with you re Sheryl — if you put her there it’d look terrible, not particularly dissing your favorite design no matter how pr0ntastic it is to begin with (I don’t have a problem with pr0ntastic, I just won’t encourage my daughter to wear them LOL).

        Well it’s not my absolute favourite but it’s up there. I really like it first of all for the creativity and relative uniqueness as far as mahou shoujo anime costumes go. The way how the whole wonderful sequence incorporates elements from such old school music hall traditions and Disney feel among more usual ingredients makes it really potent aesthetically to me just like similar mashup of elements makes Kindan terrific. It also helps Niji Iro Kuma Kuma is wonderful, wonderful song.

        Anyway, I’d take issue with it if it was put on actual young mahou shoujo character (not to mention 2 year old little girl in real world!!) or if it was with series Ranka but it really isn’t that much a issue with me in filmverse. If you’re a pretty 16 year old idol your looks are always one of your sell points. Since film Ranka is physically and emotionally rather mature and more openly, uhh, sexual than her even more innocent series counterpart (the attempt at coy flirting she employed at beach is straight out of DYRL Minmay’s trick book! I thought that from beginning so I was pretty satisfied to read from film guide book that her method was indeed intentionally on line with DYRL Minmay’s… maybe as a sign of the biz starting to have effect on her. Meanwhile Megumi chose it her favourite scene from the film saying her “little devilness.” as idol is starting to slowly wake up lol and it was really unexpected) was it didn’t feel like complete exploitation of a oblivious, naive teenage girl. She knows what she is doing. And really, if age is the crucial issue… Sheryl is 17 and look at *her* concerts.

        All in all Ranka is lucky as at least she got to do it with style. Most real life idols in Japan can only dream of as “respective” or subtle service in industry where girls are really preyed on by ever hungry cameras in ever more questionable poses and outfits. The garterbelt is small time in comparison to real world.

        I rather like SNSD and the girls are undeniably charming (GEE GEE GEE GEE BABY BABY)… but to really make the point why Ranka’s mahou shoujo outfit is in really good taste as far as forcing teenage idols into fanservice goes we have AKB48’s “THAT” music video, the Heavy Rotation: http://tinyurl.com/29jbzxu

        *This* is what I call disgusting exploitation of underage idols for fanservice… and yet the video was made to lure in female target demography (those girls and young women who look up to glamorous lingeria models) and it was succesful, what the fuck Japan!?!?!?!?!?

        • Not uncharitable towards the creators, but towards English speaking anime fans!

          • Xard says:

            ahhhh, okay… so wait what, why would you find it so questionable in the first place (at least this is the picture I got with the mention of your wife’s occupation elsewhere) if it’s mostly about fan reaction of tertiary fandom? You can’t really control such thing and, well, “open Ranka” sounding to some degree suggestive to English speaker is probably similar unintended consequence like kaji’s hilarious engrish breaks character’s coolness with non-japanese audiences

          • I’m not even complaining, you’re just jumping on this as usual.

            OPEN! XARDO!

        • Xard says:

          I’m not even complaining, you’re just jumping on this as usual.

          Sure, sure. I get it I get it.

          (just posting to test the block quote function tbh)

  29. Pingback: Critique : Macross Frontier - Sayonara no Tsubasa (Film 2) | FFenril.info

  30. Pingback: Macross Frontier as Mecha Anime—The 7th of 6 Posts on The Wings of Farewell | We Remember Love

  31. Tsubasa says:

    Did you noticed the BLUE and RED Quarters among the fleet!!!! Max and Milia were in the rally too *o*!!!!!!!!! That scene plus Isamu made the movie for me ^o^!

  32. Pingback: The Wings of Goodbye – Goodbye to What Macross Stands For « Ideas Without End

  33. 設定特定ディナー、オープン顕著なワインし、で楽しむすべてセクションのそれの下に、星空、の一部として貴重な会社。人を最初に起動によると探して正直をデータベースに格納排他的入力あなたチェックアウトクエリ検索エンジン使用します。

  34. Gungriffen says:

    This is why watch Robotech……

  35. Gungriffen says:

    This is why watch Robotech………

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