![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_04.27_[2012.01.29_09.18.50]](https://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/horriblesubs-nisemonogatari-04-720p-mkv_snapshot_04-27_2012-01-29_09-18-50.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_04.27_[2012.01.29_09.18.50]")
Hanekawa is powerful. She is a joy to watch. It is revealed how she dominated Senjougahara over the phone in the previous episode. She told her basically “Do as I say or I will ask Araragi to be my boyfriend.” This is delicious in that the most powerful moment in the previous episode is the reinforcement of the Hitagi x Koyomi love story/pairing, and that this casual revelation undermines everything. It makes Senjougahara weak and vulnerable and not just some crazy tsudere service machine.
Also, Hanekawa is amazing with her new look. Yeah the meganefags are screwed over, but her short hair and no-glasses look is far superior to her usual frumpy moé look, and even her crazy cat version. She exerts her power and influence over the Araragi household, and Koyomi has the good sense to listen to her. I don’t think she’s all well, and the show is subtle enough to hint this without being overbearing, and this (and her eventual showdown with Senjougahara over Koyomi) will be something I look forward to watching.
This means I will have to endure what things that follow (after the jump) that I am not going to say anything about anymore. My silence should say pretty much everything.
![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_12.03_[2012.01.29_09.24.02]](https://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/horriblesubs-nisemonogatari-04-720p-mkv_snapshot_12-03_2012-01-29_09-24-02.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_12.03_[2012.01.29_09.24.02]")
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![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_18.35_[2012.01.29_09.27.02]](https://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/horriblesubs-nisemonogatari-04-720p-mkv_snapshot_18-35_2012-01-29_09-27-02.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_18.35_[2012.01.29_09.27.02]")
![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_21.21_[2012.01.29_09.28.42]](https://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/horriblesubs-nisemonogatari-04-720p-mkv_snapshot_21-21_2012-01-29_09-28-42.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_21.21_[2012.01.29_09.28.42]")
![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_21.42_[2012.01.29_09.29.18]](https://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/horriblesubs-nisemonogatari-04-720p-mkv_snapshot_21-42_2012-01-29_09-29-18.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_21.42_[2012.01.29_09.29.18]")
![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_22.18_[2012.01.29_09.29.40]](https://ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/horriblesubs-nisemonogatari-04-720p-mkv_snapshot_22-18_2012-01-29_09-29-40.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 04 [720p].mkv_snapshot_22.18_[2012.01.29_09.29.40]")
Yes. No.
We Remember Love 
I think I know where you stand. The implications of those screencaps are disturbing, perhaps frightening at some level. On one level I wish I could unsee all that. On another, everything I thought about the Koyomi-harem has been undermined or warped severely.
It’s actually very cool how seemingly out of nowhere, Tsubasa can challenge Hitagi like this. I’m all for it.
The whole Hanekawa scene was brilliant, and I have no idea anything else that happened in the episode
Yeah, and she really looks a whole lot better. I don’t know if you noticed, how the Hanekawa image I used with the very adult-looking sharp features is similar to the adult version of Shinobu.
The fucked up thing is how Hanekawa is otherwise moefied, that she actually looks younger now, like Sengoku with a rack. So the effect is like a very subtler version of Panty & Stocking style off-model design.
But I think it has been implied in the novels and then some that a few of the more absurd characters (aka the vampires, cat spirits, guilotine cutter, and maybe even Oshino) aren’t actually real. They’re simply a part of the psyche of the other characters.
Basically all of the characters aren’t connected by a series of supernatural events, but instead common psychological turmoil. So before people get all nuts about the superficial loli service, let’s consider the fact that #1) Araragi doesn’t even find her sexually appealing (probably because she’s a manifestation of a part of himself), and #2) she’s probably not even real in the tangible sense.
AND THEN IT WAS ALL A DREAM!
I am not interested in the source material. It’s the anime that captures my imagination. Forays into the source material just lead to unwated spoilers. That said, the only NisiOisiN I actually got to read was Zaregoto, and it was awful.
you pulled that one out of your ass
also
yeah right.
Somewhere out there exists a universe where lolicon doesn’t exist and a little nudity is no reason to get worked up about. This would be a world where I wouldn’t have to defend Nisemonogatari against the perverts.
Is this the real life? Is this the internet? Caught in a shitstorm, No escape from perversity. Open your eyes, look down to the subs and read, I’m just a poor nerd, I need no sympathy, because I’m easy come, easy go, spirit high, boner low, any way the storm shits doesn’t really matter to me, to me.
mnkay, you sound like someone who needs to read the book
You do have to understand that the illustrations themselves are perverted. The signal is very clear: fap to this.
In other news, someone on twitter was all like “Finally! Male fanservice!”
It’s not really male fanservice, unless you see Koyomi with another dude, unless you tell me women and gay men have been following this show closely LOL
Eh, when someone calls it male fanservice it is male fanservice in my book. *shrugs*
Disagreed. Ararararagi was most definitely delicious manservice in this episode.
So I take it from your silence that you’re down with the loli look, and you want Araragi to plow her in bathtub?
I’m not you.
vampire lolis’ personality is sexy as hell and my god Sakamoto’s performance is utterly perfect and alluring on its own (this is even more unusual feeling casting for her than Mari) – it’s just that physically she’s a bit too loli for me…
After Vampire Bund and Kodomo no Jikan, I’ve gotten over my loli squeamishness. I truly enjoyed experiencing Araragi and Shinobu’s true relationship. She’s another character that exposes another side of Araragi and brings out something special to the story. When ever the prequel to Bakemonogatari comes out, I’ll be very anxious to see how all this formed.
Basically what I think is that if one finds such loli character physically squemish their (this is mostly subconscious either way) mental schemas are treating the character as a 2D depiction of a child with mental focus of attention on the chidlike features (petiteness, large head vs body etc.) – a natural “normalfag” reaction I think – while those into lolis pick up the blooming signs of sexual maturity (usually a body and hipline that has way more in common with your average bikini model than a kid, budding or small breasts etc.) combined usually with innocent cute image or that of a little succubi (fanservice “loli” characters tend to be one of the two in my experience). This means the usual loli is just highly conceptualized, abstractized version of the generic male fantasy of a young, “ready” girl to teach. Hardly a sign of pedophilia.
Of course this isn’t always the case and there are sexualized lolis with completely prepubescent features. Shinobu is too close to them for me (in contrast to someone like Fate Testarossa who has a bodyline more in common with supermodel than a kid apart from head-to-body ratio and petite size…which is general with such loli chars, lol) to actually get any kicks out of the sleaze
Anyway, I have nothing against loliesque looks in general and with anime I tend to find myself more attracted to (not to say I don’t find the ridiculous bombshells attractive :P) the somewhat petitely build cute or impish girls (partly because I tend to find their proportions at least a little bit more “realistic” and partly because the weighless balloony way huge breasts get often drawn in anime don’t appeal to me that much). So something like Ohana, Kuroneko or deliciously-meaty-but-with-DFC look Ranka has in Sayonara’s beach date are all very much YESSSS to me.
Or to gauge my “lolicon level” in some sense, I really really loved Ranka’s magical girl outfit. Simply for its max cuteness, general magician aesthetics and use of colours… as well as because it’s very, hmm, openable* 😀 😀
but proper (10 yo would be the standard age I guess) kiddy mahou shoujo is just a cute brat to me.
So while loliesque-in-build characters like Kuroneko appeal to me and I can’t deny attractiveness of some lolis like Fate… Shinobu looks too much like a kid to have her do anything for me.
Now had she had the appereance of 13-14 year old (which in anime terms means “body most adult women IRL can only dream of”) the scene would’ve been very erotic. But alas she didn’t and such attractive personality is wasted
Of course this is just as far as I’m concerned
so what really happened with changing shinobu’s voice actress… not that she actually said anything in the first series
Aya Hirano is a drama queen who was quite bend on ruining her career last year
…also she’s doing live action TV right now…
well, to some extent that is
Gotta say that the uberpowerful Hanekawa that can reduce Senjougahara to being an almost whimpering wreck seems out of character for me. Here is the girl that in Bakemonogatari was too shy to even share her feelings for Araragi and now suddenly she lords it verbally over Senjougahara no less? I’m fine with Senjougahara being a bit softer and Hanekawa a bit tougher this time around, but I hope it’s not overdone through the rest of the series. Or that there is more to that conversation than both of them have let on.
But yeah, she looks much better with this look.
Was pleasantly surprised that Shinobu finally talked (goodbye Aya Hirano, hello Maaya Sakamoto) but found the bath scene to be too long and far too graphic. There is such a thing as ‘too young’ in my book and I think Nise is crossing this line a bit too often.
You sir are a fag.
Nah. Just a man with a different opinion to yours.
Only on the Internet: People who are not sexually attracted to 8 year olds are now considered fags.
I wouldn’t say out of character because it’s obvious that something is up.
I agree with the “you´re a fag” comment
Sigh…
Aw, man. This episode had lots of interesting things to talk about, and you get hung up on that. Like: plot development! An episode full of it! Or: the show was so unwilling to abandon the fanservice and banter for said plot development it actually resorted to running two conversations in parallel. Or: it’s Shinobu, guys! She’s talking! Shinobu’s here and she’s talking guys! She’s opening her mouth and sounds are coming out, in such a way as to communicate a series of coherent thoughts with especial meaning in the immediate context and the overarching plot and character arcs!
In fact, that last was the draw of the episode for me. I’ve been dying to see Shinobu actually say something for what feels like an age now, and watching her explore the relationship between her and Araragi- which has until now been very low key, very implicit- was a delight.
The fact that it came as the filling in a naked prepubescent girl sandwich was… unfortunate, but it wasn’t disasterous for me.
Actually, I think I want to examine that a little more. While I was sitting there, jaw agape, eyes bugging out of my head going, “What the fuck am I watching here?” for more or less the entire episode (oh, SHAFT), I can’t say I was creeped out. Perhaps I’m just desensitised. But it’s interesting, in comparison to, say, the scene with Sengoku on the bed with the swimsuit in the original Bakemono, which did creep me way the fuck out- and still does.
I think the difference is in Araragi’s reaction to each scene: there, he’s flushed and agog and all but drooling; here, he’s not fussed. The fucks remain ungiven. That, in addition to the fact that Shinobu looks so young, renders the scene sterile for me; no matter how hard the camera tries to sexualise her, there’s no frisson. No charge.
From my perspective, those last three screens you’ve posted were actually three of the least erotically charged shots in the entire episode. In the context of the conversation, they seemed to speak more of a loneliness and an exhaustion and an anomie in Shinobu (and mirrored, to some extent, in Araragi), than anything about sex.
Hanekawa, eh. She’s never really interested me that much, and (possibly for that reason), I’ve never really been able to take her seriously as a rival for Araragi’s affections. So that development fell a little flat for me. Maybe that’ll change as things develop, we’ll see.
If you wish to understand my choices regarding this show, feel free to read the archives; not only for that of Nisemonogatari and Bakemonogatari but more personal things. I have a two-year old daughter and a lovely wife. I watched Bakemonogatari with my wife; she is an attorney who in part specializes in child rights. I could never do so with Nisemonogatari.
Now I won’t ask to censor this show, nor disparage viewers who get off on its smuttiness. This post serves to distinguish how I am still able to watch this show despite finding the worst of things I won’t appreciate.
Also, LOL plot development.
Ah, I apologise if I’ve offended you in some way. All I wished to communicate is that, though the medium is deplorable, I found a few things riding in it that might be worth discussing. But if you don’t wish to be drawn- well, fair enough, I won’t press you. 😉
(And yes, plot development! The majority of the dialogue in this episode was either directly related or closely tangential to the immediate events of the narrative, and most of the rest was straight up character development. The plot’s progressed more in this episode than the previous three combined.
Not, I’ll grant you, that that’s any great accomplishment. 😛
(Not that the plot really matters, true- this series is all about the characters.))
Don’t worry man, I have this thing about offense. I don’t have to take it, even if it is given.
Is Nisemonogatari trying to give offense? I doubt it. Thus, anyone who is offended by this is probably taking the offense rather enthusiastically.
I won’t take offense, not from you or anyone. It’s such a waste of energy.
I do think that this show is smut. It will try to do clever things with its smut, but it is smut. Most of all, it revels in the pornographic animation of underage physiques in pre-sexual situations.
Pretty sweet sweet sweet episode right here.
I never cared for Hanekawa (I still don’t all that much) but her new look is far superior and quite alluring.
Maaya Sakamoto as Shinobu is amazing. I greatly enjoyed the long lololol fanservice/bs dialogue scene with her because it was refreshing and Sakamoto’s performance was utterly delicious (as was the ancient way of talking). Too bad Shinobu couldn’t appear at least slightly older as it kinda makes saabicu wasteful…
now having said that on more critical note show’s inability to stop sexualizing characters through and through even in scenes like where Karen’s burning with fever really hurts its merit in my eyes if evaluated “seriously”
The service is not wasted on the kimoi pervs that buy all them blurays.
I always find it fascinating how one element of a work can be so dominant, to the point that other elements become essentially invisible. Like shining a flashlight in your eyes while you’re watching a movie. Or like one odor overpowering the taste in a meal. You see it happen in so many places, whether it be nudity in this show, male dominance in Gurren Lagann or FLCL, misogyny in Redline, or visual imagery in 5cm/s.
Can’t wait to read your reaction to next week’s episode! Cleanliness is next to godliness!
wow, you´re like a fantastic beast of legend or something, like a creationist!
so gay you actually circle back into cool…then back into gay
Misogyny in Redline…
“male dominance”
what a moron
someone with your sensitive heart must find 99.9% of life on Earth and human history profoundly “offensive” to the point of just collapsing into a pile of goo as an allergic reaction to existence
“visual imagery” that´s a great one too
OUT!!!GET OUT OF THE GENE POOL, YOU´RE FAIL INCARNATE!
Misogyny in Redline?
Redline passes the Bechdel test, has female characters talking to each other about nothing else but winning, pwnage, etc. Supergrass etc. completely pwns Roboworld in a straight up battle of the sexes, etc. Women never stand around talking about men, etc.
Dude.
It’s not an opinion I share, but clearly at least one person was so offended by the misogyny in Redline that he couldn’t enjoy the movie for everything else. But I admit, he makes a pretty good case, and it places the misogyny in an analogous position to nudity in Nisemonogatari.
So we both agree that it isn’t misogynist, and totally not at the level the reviewer felt it was. Good case? Planet Supergrass is completely represented by Vagina and it totally trolls and pwns Roboworld which is all penis. The reviewer wants to see penis and lo, PENISES!
Oh and I just remembered.
The finish line for Redline is this giant pink vagina that emerged from the very nuts of Roboworld. Who put it there? The princess sorceress of Planet Supergrass.
Also, for people still confused. That´a drawing of a loli vampire, not a a real loli vampire
Why are females illustrated the way they are?
They are illustrated to be attractive.
Why are females illustrated and animated naked?
You don’t have to answer that.
Why choose a child form to animate in sexually provocative ways, in a set-piece that is practically a pre-sex scenario?
You don’t have to answer that.
why not?
that´s the cool thing about fiction
WHY NOT?
Indulge yourself then.
To be perfectly fair the reasons why people in animation industry (and this is definetly not limited to anime) are designed and drawn attractive have much larger reasons behind them than just making them fappable or something. Ditto for use of nudity which in no way is sexual fanservice in all times and can be used to convey many other different things too.
Of course in context of Monogatari this really isn’t a relevant nitpick.
Yes, not relevant.
I was actually watching this with my sister.
And to be honest, I was so busy reading the subs I forgot to be worried about it all. Or maybe
Unlike the Nadeko arc which I was close to telling her to just not watch “because it’s not good anyways” lol
Well, it helps that the scene was SO explicit there was actually that sort of blurry censoring by making a lot of details invisible. So it was kind of less pornographic than a lot of the scenes where girls still have their clothes on.
I doubt that’ll stay true for the bluray, though.
That bathroom is really, really, really nice, though. If I had the cash, I’d try to get it made.
Like many beautiful things, the bathroom is incredibly impractical and wasteful. The design is masturbatory, just like this whole scene.
This has been bothering me as well. The architecture in Bakemonogatari was highly stylized but still grounded in reality in regards of proportion and content. Nisemonogatari on the other hand features some absurd location designs which are too spacious or contain design elements which are at least unusual for the location they try to portray (e.g. stained glass windows in the bathroom).
You don’t remember the spiral staircase where Koyomi caught Hitagi, or the playground where he found Mayoi?
The staircase was the only thing I could think of when I wrote my previous reply but since it was only featured in one scene I skipped to mention it specifically. After all, it was still a staircase albeit one which could easily fit in a skyscraper. 🙂 The rest of the architecture was fairly mundane as far as I remember. I don’t remember anything being obviously out of order with the playground.
Truth to be told, I might also be more perceptive about the wacky architecture in Nisemonogatari since so far I regard 3 out of 4 episodes having been a train wreck and one episode (the 3rd) being “not as bad as the rest” which is hardly an achievement. Bakemonogatari was captivating so it was more easy to overlook secondary aspects like the design while the tripe Nise sells as plot and character development practically forces me to occupy myself with the background details.
masturbation is good for you, it helps prevent prostate cancer and feels very good.
I see a lot of Tsukihi with knives in their hands. They must be angry for something, right?
Very angry.
You don’t understand what I’m saying. You’ve been played by Shinbo. You’ve fallen into his obvious trap.
What is this trap?
I’m surprised you ask.
You’ve been conditioned. The three previous episodes got you used to a heavy sexualization of the characters and situations, which created expectations for what was to come. And then came the bathroom scene. Your mind created the “fanservice”, not Shinbo.
This scene was actually crafted to be interpretable in three ways: a cute moment where two beings that intimately know each other wash one another like brothers and sisters ; a scene of disturbing sexual implications ; and the literal dialogs involving the plot and the state of mind of the characters, this last one being distinct but unremovable form the other two.
You see, there is no sexualization in the whole scene, your mind does the whole job by itself and Shinbo helps it along the way (the white shampoo flowing on Shinobu’s hair (seriously guys, I didn’t even notice this one before you told me), the position of her feet in the bathtub, the verbal spikes thrown against Koyomi about him watching her, etc.)
I’m willing to bet that the abondance of “smut” in the previous episodes was in preparation for this. This is very clever. The show put you in a state of mind that made you see everything with the pervert filter on your eyes.
Hahaha, no.
What can I say? How about discussing what I would rather see from this series.
I want more Hitagi. Here’s an otakubait franchise that had the gall early on to pair its perverted but quick-witted, noble of heart lead with one of the most interesting girls in a romantic anime series in recent memory. I want more of this rare breed, the high school couple in a working relationship. They’ve built it up a little bit, capped by the phenomenal date of the previous season, but Nise is clearly still pushing the harem dynamic. He exclusively hangs out with other girls, girls who openly flirt with him, yet Hitagi doesn’t state any concern. Why doesn’t this strain their relationship? Or in what way does Araragi show unique devotion to her that he doesn’t share with the others? I’m unconvinced the series can continue to have its cake and eat it too without breaking the willing suspension of disbelief; play out the harem or maintain the relationship, not both. This would be an interesting direction that I harbor zero hope of being explored.
Yes, sigh.
At most I want the Hanekawa thing to form a love triangle at best. But as for a harem with two elementary school aged girls, fuck that.
+1
Often it seems like we’re supposed to accept the simple fact that Araragi can even conceive of Senjougahara *as* an object for romance as proof enough.
Elsewhere, his motivations are literally the most libido deflating emotions known to man, and that’s probably where the majority of Senjougahara’s security comes from. She’s a heroine that just straight up told the dunce protagonist that she’s romantically interested, and thus she’s automatically ahead of every other girl who insists on working through suggestion and subtext.
Which obviously bounces off Araragi like mook suits off Wing Gundams.
I mean, that’s why someone scheming enough to *know* that a direct declaration is a weapon, like Hanekawa, is a threat to Senjougahara. Everyone else who continues to just try and seduce him or quietly suggest their inner conflict or whatever, total brick wall.
As for Shinobu and Mayoi, I don’t think they’re even In The Running. They’re clearly just people who happen to be eye candy while chatting to Araragi.
Just another one of those *monogatari “hey I’m genre aware” things.
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@ghostlightning: Hahaha, yes.
Did you just skip to the “Shinobu is Hot” part? Kind of irresponsible to ignore that.
I didn’t ignore it the same way you pretty much ignore nude 8 year old as fanservice. Now I’ll ignore you, don’t bother replying.
That’s alright. I just stopped caring. If you want that badly to be offended, I won’t stop you.
A sincere good day to you.
Thanks for your well wishes, you should read the thread more before you jump to conclusions though.
Ghost, I’ve been reading your blog for a while now, and you’ve always struck me as kind of awesome though I’ve never commented before.
Now I *know* you are. Good taste in anime, smart blog posts AND a reasonable set of morals! ;D
Thanks, join the discussions more often :3
I’ll have to say you really should read the prequel book. It makes this scene not as bad as you think it is. Nudity isn’t necessarily a sexual thing. And in this case it isn’t. It comes off of not understanding the relationship between Shinobu and Araragi. Which is to be expected because the prequel hasnt come out to movies yet.
!!!!Spoilers: Shinobu is at least 500 years old. She and Araragi do share an intament connection and now that she is connected to his shadow they share emotions and thoughts. Honestly the whole thing is about how they will live with each other for much longer than the people they know will. They will outlive them all and it will just be them two in whatever relationship they decide to have after that. There is a very specific reason she is a young girl though.
Honestly I think there is nothing overly sexual about it at all. To me this series has always been about the mind, the word games, and the personalities. Love is between two entities and genreraly built oupon more than just the looks which is what everyone is throwing a hissy fit over with this episode. Nudity is the most natural thing really.
But again, I didn’t find anything sexually enticing in this and saw it as a conversation about life and death between two individuals whos lifetimes and viewpoints are completly different.
Also, if you are curious as to why everyone has short hair now. Araragi has a fetish for short hair.
No no no.
All this context TRIES to change the fact that this is animation.
It’s smut.
It’s more than just smut. But it’s smut.
And LOL even if she were OVER NINE THOUSAND years old she’s still naked with an 8 year old body.
YOU THINK PERVS FAP TO HER PERSONALITY?
And if you actually read the post, there’s no hissy fit thrown. I didn’t say anything. The images spoke for themselves.
I’m fine with this franchise being more than smut, after all I blogged all of Bakemonogatari. Read the archives. But it IS smut. Let’s not fool ourselves. It’s just far better smut than say, Ikkitousen.
That’s the thing though. It doesn’t matter what pervs think of this. It matters what the people think of it. You putting so much emphasis on the simple fact that they were naked is far more you pushing your opinions on it than what it itself it. There was maybe two times in the whole scene in which anything sexual happened. The start when she appears and the end when he pats her head (which has a huge meaning described in the prequel book). Unfortunately anything can be deemed sexual if you look at it that way. Nudity has little to do with making something sexual.
Just to make clear, there are a lot of sexual things in this show, but I don’t think this scene is one of them.
But honestly, we just have two different opinions on the subject. Perhaps it’s best to leave it at that.
No, you don’t have to poll pervs to be able to tell that na naked child is posing sexually as an adult with another sexually mature person. Never mind how that male is a perv. Let’s leave it at that.
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I find this whole commotion about Shinobu to be amusing and hilarious. Of course she is naked, of course she is meant to be physically attractive to some point. If you have forgotten: we are talking about Nisemonogatari – which is sequel to Bakemonogatari. I will proceed now to explain what does it mean:
First of all – someone suggested Shinobu isn’t real – she can’t be seen by other people and probably is personalisation of some part of Koyomis psyche – thats partially untrue – since i cannot prove she is not part of psych i won’t even dare to try to meddle with this accusation – however she is perfectly visible to Koyomis younger sister who opens the bathroom door, stands there for few seconds and vanishes only to come back with a knife saying that there was some girl in the bathroom too.
Since generally in this anime (didn’t have enough luck to read the novels) we at least two characters who tease main protagonist in different ways i’d say Shinobu is the third – the most… cunning one? Senjougahara plays the role of dominant female, who teases protagonist, questions his abilities and intentions, tortures, denies different things like water and food and physically abuses him (stapling his cheek for example) while this is all a façade for here delicate and gentle side which seeks love. Ergo: Hitagi denies Koyomi all but sexual related “ideas” – they kiss, they make out, in seventh episode of nisemonogatari we have some sort of hint of her wanting to “make love” with him ( “be gentle with me”).
Suruga Kanbaru is other way around – she is denied sexuality, her voice is somewhat deep and attractive, she is almost vulgarly sexual, she even “forgets” to put on clothes knowing Koyomi is coming to help her clean her house. She essentially symbolises Koyomis sexual tension – he is teased by her. But he can’t do anything because Senjougahara will “kill him and her” – not mentioning that despite all of the sexual teasing Suruga still remains lesbian – i even forgot about this simple fact while watching nisemonogatari.
Now since we have this pair explaing lets follow with Oshino Shinobu and Nadeko Sengoku – because these two are actually opposites. While Nadeko desires to be Koyomis “lover” both physically and emotionally (she tries to seduce him, and remember of the twister game) she is still a child. None of You would think about it but it is her that is a kid. On the other side we have Shinobu, who looks way more like a child compared to Sengoku, but while she and koyomi show no general interest in each others sexualit or other way, she is opposite of Sengoku – who is a child trying to behave like adult, Shinobu is an adult woman who looks like a child (think of Claudia of The Interview with a Vampire). I think it is essentially shinobu who could be emotionally threat to Senjougahara’s and Araragi’s relationship – but while all of the other characters represent different type of sexual attractivness Shinobu represents it’s absence. This is why they can sit next to each other in the bath tub, this is why Koyomi can wash her hair, this is why Shinobu can joke about fantasizing about their current situation (both naked in the bath tube) and explaing in how much trouble she could get Koyomi into simply by screaming for help. This is why we can’t have nice things – because people add wrong meanings to things that intend to be harmless. There is nothing wrong with this scene – You who imply things, make it wrong.
Sincerly
Urdhgag
This is also true. Good reading.
What is untrue is how it’s as if the nudity of an 8-year old is NOT sexual fanservice.
I’d say that Hachikuji Mayoi is *year old sexual fanservice brought to it’s limits. I know few women who despite their psychological maturity look like they are in theirs early teens. I think You consider it from a point of view of westerner (for whom child pornography of any sort is repulsive and plainly wrong) but while we cannot deny that Shinobu looks like a child – she most certainly is not one.
Both Bakemonogatari and Nisemonogatari are about tension, teasing and denial – what if Shinobus appearance was sort of provocation of creators of anime so they can tease and irritate the audience, or those people of audience who will find it offensive or wrong. Maybe her appearance in that scene was to let You better understand how Koyomi is feeling while surrounded by lot’s of teasing women? When instead of protagonist it is You, dear watcher, who is exposed to a tease which is aimed at You – something nowadays called vulgarly “trolling”. Perhaps it is when You will realize that fact that you will be able to enjoy Nisemonogatari even more – while better understanding Koyomi. It is not naruto we are talking about – but most certainly intellectual entertainment at it’s finest.
Sexual exploitation isn’t about Shinobu’s psychological age LOLOLOL
Hachikuji is probably decades old LOLOLOL
It’s that kind of smut: they can age in every way but they must remain fappably children forever.
Well… This is essentially where my logic fails – plainly becuase i do not see these characters as “fappable”. I understand that other people may consider it that way, but on the other hand – don’t You think it is essientially as Morgan Freeman said? How to make racism disapear? Stop talking about it. Stop considering things racist. Why on earth simple words are considered horrible? It is not words, but people who want to hurt others. What do You do when someone call You names? Punch him? Isn’t it better to just allow such ignorant to be forgotten?
I consider both Hachikuji and Shinobu as characters with no sexuality – they appear to me as such, even the molestation jokes with Hachikuji can appear essentially because of that. Because Hachikuji is far from having any sexual dimension.
I would consider nudity in the bathroom scene to honesty – they have nothing to lie about, nothing to hide from each other. Both Koyomi and Shinobu are parts of one – of the same thing. She possibly knows his toughts, as he knows her desires. Why do You insist on exposing this vulgar dimension of this scene and let go of more important, metaphysical one? There are many possible explanations however You insist on the most offensive and dangerous one. Because of that in US you cannot pat your co-workers back because they did outstanding job – it will be considered sexual harassment. Just explain to me why would You insist on holding creators of Nisemonogatari responsible for something horrible while perhaps they wanted to show you something completely different?
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